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What oil for a wormdrive?

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  • #730265
    Dustincoc
    Pro
    Madrid, NY

    Recently picked up Craftsman Industrial worm drive saw for next to nothing($15). upon testing, it sounded like it had a bad bearing. I pulled it apart last night and found all bearings I could get to were good, however the gearbox had next to no oil in it.

    From what I’ve seen, the saw is identical to a the per-magnesium Skil 77. First worm drive ever so not 100% sure on anything.

    I’ve added a tube of the Skil Wormdrive lube to my Amazon cart. But I’m looking for something I may already have for testing purposes. I was thinking gear oil, mixed with a little grease to thicken it. No projects to use the saw on for the foreseeable future so this is only for testing.

    Shop Blog: http://ravenbarsrepair.tumblr.com/
    Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz498FKw9LF1awJsKIqhoxQ

    #730269
    smallerstick
    Pro
    North Bay, ON

    The only thing I have used for mine is the Skil oil. You might have a look at the oil used in auto differentials. Similar hypoid gears there.

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.

    #730270
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Only thing I’ve ever used is worm drive oil.

    I have one of those Craftsman Industrial saws. I’ve had it for about 25 years or so, and it’s still going strong.

    It is exactly like a Skil. Skil parts work for it.

    #730272
    Dustincoc
    Pro
    Madrid, NY

    The only thing I have used for mine is the Skil oil. You might have a look at the oil used in auto differentials. Similar hypoid gears there.

    Already got that. Been reading it’s about half the weight of the right stuff.

    Shop Blog: http://ravenbarsrepair.tumblr.com/
    Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz498FKw9LF1awJsKIqhoxQ

    #730274
    CB
    Spectator

    You can pickup a tube of genuine Skil branded worm gear oil at your local Home Depot today, for immediate satisfaction of your curiosity.

    The tube might still say S-B Tools on the back, perhaps left over trademarking from when Bosch and Skil were partnered tool brands.

    Within the last year, I picked up rip fence, a tube of lube, and a sky hook… all genuine Skil brand… from Home Depot. These are regularly stocked parts. Home Depot also stocks a replacement cord with built in strain relief, and a trigger switch… all in support of the timeless Model 77 worm drive saw. It’s kind of cool actually, to have such immediate, ubiquitous, and after hours access to the most frequently needed support parts for the Model 77.

    And by the way, the Skil rip fence works and fits perfect with the Makita Rear Handle saw. One only needs to replace the retaining screw that comes with the Skil fence (SAE threads) to a metric screw… which I believe is an M6x1.25, in order to thread into the Makita magnesium base plate.

    The worm drive gear lube is definitely more viscous than most rear end differential lube viscosities sold today, which are typically on the lighter end of the weight scale for fuel economy (ie 75W-90 vs 85W-140).

    The real problem with using rear end differential lube will be the SMELL. The high sulphur content of typical differential gear lubricants will smell repugnant when using your saw. I recommend just using the right stuff. Mixing grease bases and lubricants can have other deleterious effects, as some chemical constituents can react with each other when heated (in use).

    #730276
    Dustincoc
    Pro
    Madrid, NY

    You can pickup a tube of genuine Skil branded worm gear oil at your local Home Depot today, for immediate satisfaction of your curiosity.

    The tube might still say S-B Tools on the back, perhaps left over trademarking from when Bosch and Skil were partnered tool brands.

    Within the last year, I picked up rip fence, a tube of lube, and a sky hook… all genuine Skil brand… from Home Depot. These are regularly stocked parts. Home Depot also stocks a replacement cord with built in strain relief, and a trigger switch… all in support of the timeless Model 77 worm drive saw. It’s kind of cool actually, to have such immediate, ubiquitous, and after hours access to the most frequently needed support parts for the Model 77.

    And by the way, the Skil rip fence works and fits perfect with the Makita Rear Handle saw. One only needs to replace the retaining screw that comes with the Skil fence (SAE threads) to a metric screw… which I believe is an M6x1.25, in order to thread into the Makita magnesium base plate.

    The worm drive gear lube is definitely more viscous than most rear end differential lube viscosities sold today, which are typically on the lighter end of the weight scale for fuel economy (ie 75W-90 vs 85W-140).

    The real problem with using rear end differential lube will be the SMELL. The high sulphur content of typical differential gear lubricants will smell repugnant when using your saw. I recommend just using the right stuff. Mixing grease bases and lubricants can have other deleterious effects, as some chemical constituents can react with each other when heated (in use).

    Closest Home Depot is 30 miles in the opposite direction of most of my travels. Lowes doesn’t stock it.

    Shop Blog: http://ravenbarsrepair.tumblr.com/
    Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz498FKw9LF1awJsKIqhoxQ

    #730294
    CB
    Spectator

    Well then I’d wait for the Amazon order to arrive. I wouldn’t put a non specified lubricant in for compatibility reasons. And I wouldn’t put automotive differential lubricant in for smell reasons.

    #730298
    CB
    Spectator

    BTW, if you find that even with correct lubricant your $15 Craftsman industrial saw still doesn’t sound or feel right, it might yet be worth a $100 discount off of a new replacement cordless saw that looks and feels just like a worm drive saw, only it is a direct drive model that doesn’t require any gear lubricant. In fact, it doesn’t even require a cord.

    The year, Makita from time to time has offered a $100 trade in value discount if you bring in any competitors saw in exchange for the saw shown in the photo above. At the most recent Makita Driving Innovation Tour event that I visited to capitalize on similar discounts, there was an entire pallet of decrepit, dilapidated worm drive saws, and I watched as guys kept bringing in more saws, which then overflowed to a second pallet sized bin.

    No one checked to see if these old saws were working or not as they were brought in. The customers just dumped their old saw in the bin, and were then handed a ticket worth $100 off a new replacement saw similar to the (slightly modified) saw shown above.

    I’ve seen similar bins of old tools at the DeWalt factory service center, where I once visited to get repair parts for a favorite (discontinued) Porter Cable sander. So, sometimes old warbly tools are worth more as trade ins for discounts on newer cordless equivalents than they are as functional tools. Something else to consider.

    #730299
    Sorpa
    Pro
    Pierrefonds, Qc

    I have a Skil wormdrive and I have no idea where to buy oil from.
    My HD doesn’t have.

    #730352
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Recently picked up Craftsman Industrial worm drive saw for next to nothing($15). upon testing, it sounded like it had a bad bearing. I pulled it apart last night and found all bearings I could get to were good, however the gearbox had next to no oil in it.

    From what I’ve seen, the saw is identical to a the per-magnesium Skil 77. First worm drive ever so not 100% sure on anything.

    I’ve added a tube of the Skil Wormdrive lube to my Amazon cart. But I’m looking for something I may already have for testing purposes. I was thinking gear oil, mixed with a little grease to thicken it. No projects to use the saw on for the foreseeable future so this is only for testing.

    I would use the right oil for you saw. It isn’t a good idea to mix grease & oil together.

    You can pickup a tube of genuine Skil branded worm gear oil at your local Home Depot today, for immediate satisfaction of your curiosity.

    The tube might still say S-B Tools on the back, perhaps left over trademarking from when Bosch and Skil were partnered tool brands.

    Within the last year, I picked up rip fence, a tube of lube, and a sky hook… all genuine Skil brand… from Home Depot. These are regularly stocked parts. Home Depot also stocks a replacement cord with built in strain relief, and a trigger switch… all in support of the timeless Model 77 worm drive saw. It’s kind of cool actually, to have such immediate, ubiquitous, and after hours access to the most frequently needed support parts for the Model 77.

    And by the way, the Skil rip fence works and fits perfect with the Makita Rear Handle saw. One only needs to replace the retaining screw that comes with the Skil fence (SAE threads) to a metric screw… which I believe is an M6x1.25, in order to thread into the Makita magnesium base plate.

    The worm drive gear lube is definitely more viscous than most rear end differential lube viscosities sold today, which are typically on the lighter end of the weight scale for fuel economy (ie 75W-90 vs 85W-140).

    The real problem with using rear end differential lube will be the SMELL. The high sulphur content of typical differential gear lubricants will smell repugnant when using your saw. I recommend just using the right stuff. Mixing grease bases and lubricants can have other deleterious effects, as some chemical constituents can react with each other when heated (in use).

    Closest Home Depot is 30 miles in the opposite direction of most of my travels. Lowes doesn’t stock it.

    Just order it from Amazon then.
    Is there any Tool repair places in your area?

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #730453
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    I was told you must use worm drive oil in the worm drive saw!!!!
    If you don’t the worms will get sick and may die!

    #730538
    Dustincoc
    Pro
    Madrid, NY

    Recently picked up Craftsman Industrial worm drive saw for next to nothing($15). upon testing, it sounded like it had a bad bearing. I pulled it apart last night and found all bearings I could get to were good, however the gearbox had next to no oil in it.

    From what I’ve seen, the saw is identical to a the per-magnesium Skil 77. First worm drive ever so not 100% sure on anything.

    I’ve added a tube of the Skil Wormdrive lube to my Amazon cart. But I’m looking for something I may already have for testing purposes. I was thinking gear oil, mixed with a little grease to thicken it. No projects to use the saw on for the foreseeable future so this is only for testing.

    I would use the right oil for you saw. It isn’t a good idea to mix grease & oil together.

    You can pickup a tube of genuine Skil branded worm gear oil at your local Home Depot today, for immediate satisfaction of your curiosity.

    The tube might still say S-B Tools on the back, perhaps left over trademarking from when Bosch and Skil were partnered tool brands.

    Within the last year, I picked up rip fence, a tube of lube, and a sky hook… all genuine Skil brand… from Home Depot. These are regularly stocked parts. Home Depot also stocks a replacement cord with built in strain relief, and a trigger switch… all in support of the timeless Model 77 worm drive saw. It’s kind of cool actually, to have such immediate, ubiquitous, and after hours access to the most frequently needed support parts for the Model 77.

    And by the way, the Skil rip fence works and fits perfect with the Makita Rear Handle saw. One only needs to replace the retaining screw that comes with the Skil fence (SAE threads) to a metric screw… which I believe is an M6x1.25, in order to thread into the Makita magnesium base plate.

    The worm drive gear lube is definitely more viscous than most rear end differential lube viscosities sold today, which are typically on the lighter end of the weight scale for fuel economy (ie 75W-90 vs 85W-140).

    The real problem with using rear end differential lube will be the SMELL. The high sulphur content of typical differential gear lubricants will smell repugnant when using your saw. I recommend just using the right stuff. Mixing grease bases and lubricants can have other deleterious effects, as some chemical constituents can react with each other when heated (in use).

    Closest Home Depot is 30 miles in the opposite direction of most of my travels. Lowes doesn’t stock it.

    Just order it from Amazon then.
    Is there any Tool repair places in your area?

    I’m in the northeast, wormdrive’s aren’t exactly common here,in fact this is only the second one I’ve ever seen.

    I was told you must use worm drive oil in the worm drive saw!!!!
    If you don’t the worms will get sick and may die!

    Uh Oh, don’t want sick worms… Got the right stuf in my Amazon cart, for my next order.

    Shop Blog: http://ravenbarsrepair.tumblr.com/
    Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz498FKw9LF1awJsKIqhoxQ

    #730552
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    GTokley wrote:
    Dustincoc wrote:
    Recently picked up Craftsman Industrial worm drive saw for next to nothing($15). upon testing, it sounded like it had a bad bearing. I pulled it apart last night and found all bearings I could get to were good, however the gearbox had next to no oil in it.

    From what I’ve seen, the saw is identical to a the per-magnesium Skil 77. First worm drive ever so not 100% sure on anything.

    I’ve added a tube of the Skil Wormdrive lube to my Amazon cart. But I’m looking for something I may already have for testing purposes. I was thinking gear oil, mixed with a little grease to thicken it. No projects to use the saw on for the foreseeable future so this is only for testing.

    I would use the right oil for you saw. It isn’t a good idea to mix grease & oil together.

    Dustincoc wrote:
    CB wrote:
    You can pickup a tube of genuine Skil branded worm gear oil at your local Home Depot today, for immediate satisfaction of your curiosity.

    The tube might still say S-B Tools on the back, perhaps left over trademarking from when Bosch and Skil were partnered tool brands.

    Within the last year, I picked up rip fence, a tube of lube, and a sky hook… all genuine Skil brand… from Home Depot. These are regularly stocked parts. Home Depot also stocks a replacement cord with built in strain relief, and a trigger switch… all in support of the timeless Model 77 worm drive saw. It’s kind of cool actually, to have such immediate, ubiquitous, and after hours access to the most frequently needed support parts for the Model 77.

    And by the way, the Skil rip fence works and fits perfect with the Makita Rear Handle saw. One only needs to replace the retaining screw that comes with the Skil fence (SAE threads) to a metric screw… which I believe is an M6x1.25, in order to thread into the Makita magnesium base plate.

    The worm drive gear lube is definitely more viscous than most rear end differential lube viscosities sold today, which are typically on the lighter end of the weight scale for fuel economy (ie 75W-90 vs 85W-140).

    The real problem with using rear end differential lube will be the SMELL. The high sulphur content of typical differential gear lubricants will smell repugnant when using your saw. I recommend just using the right stuff. Mixing grease bases and lubricants can have other deleterious effects, as some chemical constituents can react with each other when heated (in use).

    Closest Home Depot is 30 miles in the opposite direction of most of my travels. Lowes doesn’t stock it.

    Just order it from Amazon then.
    Is there any Tool repair places in your area?

    I’m in the northeast, wormdrive’s aren’t exactly common here,in fact this is only the second one I’ve ever seen.

    Really! I guess Amazon is your best choice then.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #730644
    CB
    Spectator

    I was told you must use worm drive oil in the worm drive saw!!!!
    If you don’t the worms will get sick and may die!

    So sad to see these little critters fall ill too…

    As they cost $50 to $60 to replace (parts only, labor not included, assuming DIY repair), the right lube, at $10, seems cheaper.

    So what’s the diff between some car diff oils and worm gear oils… besides the sickening smell of sulfur?

    One difference relates to how oil is worked between the mating surfaces of the gear engagement. The contact engagement between the drive gear and the driven gear in a worm drive arrangement is all sliding, rather than compressive. While sliding, the lubricant is scraped away, and the friction and loss of fluid film results in higher temperatures and lower hydrodynamic pressure.

    Just looking at the photo of the actual worm transmission of a Model 77 Skilsaw above makes readily apparent how power is transmitted through a constant sliding and scraping contact between the cylindrical worm helix and the throated enveloping worm wheel.

    Another observation revealed by the photo is the dissimilar metal between the drive cylinder and the driven wheel. Because of the vicious shearing of the lubricating film, the metals themselves need to have a lower friction coefficient to survive and not “die”.

    Brass or bronze typically have lower native coefficients of friction, so the driven worm wheel is often made of yellow metal, as seen in the case here.

    So now, in addition to the higher viscosity index needed to survive the sliding contact between the gears… the additive package must be chemically compatible with yellow metal, as well as steel, which the drive cylinder helix is usually made of, for durability.

    Still, we have dissimilar metals scraping against each other in a frictionally heated environment, while swimming in the same concoction of chemicals… which need to be compatibly formulated for the given environment.

    Since I don’t have a degree in ChemE and am not a Tribologist, it is a heck of a lot easier for me to simply use the lubricant engineered for the application, to extend service life, avert avoidable wear, and prevent premature “death”. Kind of a no brainer.

    #730685
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    DirtyWhiteBoy wrote:
    I was told you must use worm drive oil in the worm drive saw!!!!
    If you don’t the worms will get sick and may die!

    So sad to see these little critters fall ill too…

    As they cost $50 to $60 to replace (parts only, labor not included, assuming DIY repair), the right lube, at $10, seems cheaper.

    One way of looking at. Oil is always cheaper then parts & labor.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

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