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Staining a fence

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  • #305766
    asevereid
    Pro
    Kamloops, BC

    Speaking of fence staining….anyone used this product? It’s marketed as a “wood treatment” for giving the aged look and offering some protection.
    Thoughts?
    http://www.valhalco.com/wood-stain-photos.php

    Lurking Hit and Run poster.

    #305808

    @Doobie, excellent primer on fence staining. In 10 years as a painting contractor we did miles of fence. If you can’t just let it gray, then here are simple steps.

    1) Powerwash it with a wide angle tip to remove most of the loose stain that may have stayed on the surface and not penetrated the PT lumber.
    2) Let dry to 15% or less moisture
    3) gently wire brush the surface to expose the maximum amount of surface area for the oil based penetrating stain to hook onto (not rough just a light brush removes stubborn areas and also opens up the surface a little bit)
    4) After spray applying the stain, let is sit for 20 minutes and then backroll the surfaces with a good quality thick nap roller and brush out any areas where the fence meets the fenceposts (or any areas the roller can’t hit) You can also use a hot dog roller for tight areas. This is the key step, as it pushes the stain into the grain and you get a much better and longer lasting finish.

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers,

    jim

    Some good information ,you mentioned to roll it after 20 minutes or so, I was thinking I guess a sprayer would not do , or in your opinion can I spray and roll afterwards ?

    #305815
    Doobie
    Moderator

    @Doobie, excellent primer on fence staining. In 10 years as a painting contractor we did miles of fence. If you can’t just let it gray, then here are simple steps.

    1) Powerwash it with a wide angle tip to remove most of the loose stain that may have stayed on the surface and not penetrated the PT lumber.
    2) Let dry to 15% or less moisture
    3) gently wire brush the surface to expose the maximum amount of surface area for the oil based penetrating stain to hook onto (not rough just a light brush removes stubborn areas and also opens up the surface a little bit)
    4) After spray applying the stain, let is sit for 20 minutes and then backroll the surfaces with a good quality thick nap roller and brush out any areas where the fence meets the fenceposts (or any areas the roller can’t hit) You can also use a hot dog roller for tight areas. This is the key step, as it pushes the stain into the grain and you get a much better and longer lasting finish.

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers,

    jim

    Some good information ,you mentioned to roll it after 20 minutes or so, I was thinking I guess a sprayer would not do , or in your opinion can I spray and roll afterwards ?

    Here’s a cut and paste from another forum where I detailed a lot of what I did…

    The one I went with was Penofin. Why? Because it had significant distribution in Canada and it also seemed the easiest to deal with for reapplying as well as the positive feedback I read bnout the product from many users on the FOG over the years. The product primarily has Brazilian Rosewood oil and has been around for decades in the US. I will add also that their technical support people are very knowledgeable about their products, and trust me, I had a lot of questions thruout this process to ask them.

    The initial application on new lumber is a bit of a pain, but subsequent refreshes should not be nearly as frequent as the Cutek product and is easy peasy compared to most other alternatives.

    Basically with new lumber, you need to make sure you are dealing with the lumber below 15% humidity and you need to “Brighten” it. Brightener is an powdered crystal that is made by Penofin that you dissolve in water and use a garden pump sprayer to apply. It’s basically a strong acid that removes natural surface oils of the wood opens the pores of the wood and helps to also remove mill glazing thus allowing the actual oil to penetrate more deeply into the wood. From the time you brighten your wood, you should be oiling within a week or the oils in the wood will return to the surface. Leave the brightener solution on wet for 20 minutes, lightly scrub the surface with a bristle broom only if it is dirty or already has dark tannin marks already, and then rinse off with a garden hose. Allow the wood to dry thoroughly for a day or two until you get back below 15% humidity, then you are ready to apply the oil. Some people may think that this is a gimmick or not necessary, but that acid solution is really strong. You noticeably see that you’ve lightened the colour of the wood after it dries. You should not have any components that are metal with the exception of stainless steel in your sprayer also.

    The oil can be applied with a variety of methods. You need a minimum temp outside of 7 C (45 F) for at least 4 hours after application. Leave the oil on for 20-30 minutes and then wipe off with non-lint forming rags any excess. The wipe off is a must, but it is easy if the wood was properly prepared. I was using about two to three disposable shop rags like you buy in the box at HD per fence panel side. I went thru about 2 1/2 galloans to do 90 feet of fencing that stands just around 6 feet high for both sides. I should mention that I also sanded with 80 grit all my rails. The verticals I used were milled tongue and groove and did not require sanding. The rails had some roughness to some of the surfaces and the mill glazing and chatter marks were of a concern to me and is why I decided to sand alll exposed areas before construction. I think this extra step was worth it as the look and the level of penetration of the oil was better than my test samples I had done beforehand which did not get sanded or brightened to show the wife and neighbours.

    Cost per gallon was $60 a gallon, but I did discover that the independent Ben Moore place that carried it near me caught wind that he was under pricing this product and was planning on charging more in the future. Another place that carried it in my neck of the woods wanted $100 gallon with a minimum 4 gallon purchase and was also going to charge me a flat $75 shipping fee for me to pick it up at their location. They were insane imo and knew little about the product line. (The Deck Store).

    The Penofin product we went with was their Ultra Premium Red Label product in the tone Western Red Cedar. Originally, I was looking at their Marine Oil finish, but the wife wanted a tint which was not available in the Marine finish.

    The fence looks gorgeous, but I still have the other side to do of my property which will not happen at this point til next spring. One word of warning, the off-gasing was unreal for the first 12 hours. Part of the fence – about 30 feet – is 10 foot off in between the neighbour’s property and ours and that night we went to bed smelling the gasing in our house despite having all the windows closed and running the air conditioning.

    I don’t expect to having to recoat from anywhere from 3 to 7 years. I suspect it will be the latter as I’ve read that when done properly, this product should last that long on vertical surfaces. The beauty of re-doing it in the future is all I have to do is wash the fence with a soapy solution to clean dirt off basically and provided I haven’t let it too long and dark tannin stains have set in, apply the oil, wipe off 20 minutes later and I’m done. I also have the option of changing colours within the same product line albeit they suggest you try a test area on the existing stained surface as is before doing so which makes sense if you are changing colours and there is still some of the old colour left.

    http://www.penofin.com/products_rl.shtml

    They also provide free samples upon request. Incredibly, I called them one morning to ask for some free samples and they were at my door later that same afternoon. I discovered later that the distributor’s representative for Penofin in this area lived not far from me and simply had dropped them off himself when he was going home that day from work.

    Hope this helps…Good luck!

    And here’s some more….

    The Ben Moore retailer where I bought it did say that they’ve had people that did not get the results they expected but he did say that those were often when people did not take the manufacturer’s recommended prep and application instructions. The BM dealer even took a couple of boards I supplied and put some samples of the different colours we were interested in to narrow down and select which tone we wanted. I brought him a really dark cedar boards and one that was really blonde. The BM did not do any sanding or brightening and the results in comparison to the real ones that were done were visibly much darker than the sampling boards of the tone we selected. Still, I will take your experience as caution. I’m really fixed on Ipe and/or a combination of paving stones for my deck project using the Silca System I mentioned earlier in this thread for the deck.

    I do see where sanding too fine would be a problem with penetration and is why I did not go higher than 80 grit. You really don’t realize how much of a mill glaze there is until you start sanding it off and the chatter/saw marks that is on the wood. I recall my own test pieces that I did not sand or brighten had a lot of oil left on them after 20 minutes prior to wiping off the excess, but when I did the actual job after the sanding and the brightening, you really discerned that the wood soaks up the oil like crazy in comparison. There was really not nearly as much excess to wipe off in comparison from when I did the test pieces. Like all painting and finishing jobs, 90% of the success is in the prep and I believe this to be no different.

    My one litle fear in the back of my head in using Penofin is that because of its VOC’s, some years down the road it may be outlawed or make application a double stage process. I asked them at Penofin tech support what their instructions implied about a two coat process. They advised something to the effect that in California the product sold has less VOC’s and requires a two coat application versus the one coat coverage that everywhere else can do. At least that’s what I think it implied, but I can’t recall for sure as it was a moot point for me and I moved on from there. There’s only so much room in the brain, so I tend to discard/ignore things that are not needed.lol.

    #305822

    @Doobie , thanks for the great help, I most likely will be going with the Penofin , because as you mentioned I did see by the link you posted I have a Quebec dealer about 1/2 drive from me. And if I do it correctly like you mentioned 3 to 7 years is great. So while the snow is still melting I will go next month and pick up my supplies .

    Thanks again.

    #305837
    Doobie
    Moderator

    EDIT: The photos show up in the reverse order from the way I explain them. END EDIT.

    Here’s some pics.

    The fence before it was stained.

    Pic of the tongue and groove boards I had milled with pattern on both sides – heritage on one;double V groove on the other.

    Some working pics of the bottom rail construction which was done using my Domino to fasten the two rails together with a strip of cut platton/dricore type membrane sandwiched in between to act as a seperator for drainage purposes.

    The final photo shows the end of the two rails that have been glued together with the platton sandwhiched in between for drainage. The Domino used was my XL700 using 12mm Dominos which I morticed thru one face, thru the membraned center and 2/3rds of the way into the other bottom rail while it was all held securely with clamps. The neighbour gets the side that shows the Domino mortices, my side is clean.

    The next step (not shown) was to dado a crevive at the top to accept the vertical milled fence boards that would float freely to the upper rails that I also have them free floating in between the two top rails that are capped with with a 1 1/4 X6 piece.

    #305845
    cranbrook2
    Pro
    Belgrave, Ontario , Canada

    EDIT: The photos show up in the reverse order from the way I explain them. END EDIT.

    Here’s some pics.

    The fence before it was stained.

    Pic of the tongue and groove boards I had milled with pattern on both sides – heritage on one;double V groove on the other.

    Some working pics of the bottom rail construction which was done using my Domino to fasten the two rails together with a strip of cut platton/dricore type membrane sandwiched in between to act as a seperator for drainage purposes.

    The final photo shows the end of the two rails that have been glued together with the platton sandwhiched in between for drainage. The Domino used was my XL700 using 12mm Dominos which I morticed thru one face, thru the membraned center and 2/3rds of the way into the other bottom rail while it was all held securely with clamps. The neighbour gets the side that shows the Domino mortices, my side is clean.

    The next step (not shown) was to dado a crevive at the top to accept the vertical milled fence boards that would float freely to the upper rails that I also have them free floating in between the two top rails that are capped with with a 1 1/4 X6 piece.

    That is a beautiful looking fence Kevin !

    #305846
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Here’s some more pics, this time in the correct order hopefully, showing how I would Domino the two rails together after the Domino mortices had been made.

    Basically, it’s all about getting enough glue so that there is good adhesion. I used TB3. If it doesn’t hold over time, I’ll just refasten them with screws, but I doubt I’ll ever need to do that.

    After the glue is dried, then I would have sanded both faces clean all over with 80 grit to help with the brightening process and also the subsequent staining with the Penofin.

    #305858
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Here’s some pics of the fence as it sits today after its first winter.

    The bottom rail uses L shaped metal brackets to fasten to the 6X6 posts. The top rails are with 2X4’s which a fastened using pocket holes. You basically can’t see any mechanical fasteners unless you go looking for them closely.

    #305872
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    I have a wood fence that needs replaced. Cant make up my mind to do it or take it down and plant some bushes. At least you don’t have to stain them.



    @roninohio

    Keep in mind that if you decide to hide the fence with bushes, you’ll have to fight those same bushes when the fence is falling down in a few years. It’s better to fix the issue now than cover it up!

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #305896

    Reply | Thank You (0) | Quote

    Man that is a beautiful fence you built, and the color is amazing, thank you very much for the pictures. Not sure if my fence will come out as nice as yours for the color/stain just because it has prior stain, but once again looks great .

    #306023
    roninohio
    Pro
    New Franklin, OH

    That fence looks great!
    I was talking about taking my fence down and then plant bushes.

    #306112
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Reply | Thank You (0) | Quote

    Man that is a beautiful fence you built, and the color is amazing, thank you very much for the pictures. Not sure if my fence will come out as nice as yours for the color/stain just because it has prior stain, but once again looks great .

    Thank you! Despite that it is really nice and above grade quality, my persnickety neighbors who try to constantly be better than everybody else and want to oppress anybody who does better themselves still complained.

    Can’t chose your neighbors or family I guess. At least neighbors will finally move or in their case of mine in question…. DIE DIE DIE!!! (their in their 80’s and have no real friends I know of)

    #306113
    Doobie
    Moderator

    EDIT: The photos show up in the reverse order from the way I explain them. END EDIT.

    Here’s some pics.

    The fence before it was stained.

    Pic of the tongue and groove boards I had milled with pattern on both sides – heritage on one;double V groove on the other.

    Some working pics of the bottom rail construction which was done using my Domino to fasten the two rails together with a strip of cut platton/dricore type membrane sandwiched in between to act as a seperator for drainage purposes.

    The final photo shows the end of the two rails that have been glued together with the platton sandwhiched in between for drainage. The Domino used was my XL700 using 12mm Dominos which I morticed thru one face, thru the membraned center and 2/3rds of the way into the other bottom rail while it was all held securely with clamps. The neighbour gets the side that shows the Domino mortices, my side is clean.

    The next step (not shown) was to dado a crevive at the top to accept the vertical milled fence boards that would float freely to the upper rails that I also have them free floating in between the two top rails that are capped with with a 1 1/4 X6 piece.

    That is a beautiful looking fence Kevin !

    John….that mens a lot to me coming from an artist and tradesperson like yourself! Thanks bud!

    #712759
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    For staining a fence I recommend Ready Seal Exterior Stain and Sealer. Used it myself, nice product, best stain in my opinion for exterior projects. Check it. Not only gives color but also protects from moisture and aggressive sunbeams.

    Also having a nice brush for staining will be great. This article https://woodimprove.com/best-brushes-for-staining-wood will give you some options to choose from.

    That’s lots of good brush info but is it click bait??? @ChadM

    #712842
    Doobie
    Moderator

    For staining a fence I recommend Ready Seal Exterior Stain and Sealer. Used it myself, nice product, best stain in my opinion for exterior projects. Check it. Not only gives color but also protects from moisture and aggressive sunbeams.

    Also having a nice brush for staining will be great. This article https://woodimprove.com/best-brushes-for-staining-wood will give you some options to choose from.

    That’s lots of good brush info but is it click bait??? @chadm

    Certainly looks like that. Just like the Mini-Chainsaw thread suddenly getting resurrected with a similar lead to a review. Non-real members who don’t ever reply to their surreptitious posts and cannot be properly be ascertained as real genuine posters for what they are inquiring.

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