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So I am not a pex guy

This topic contains 61 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Skillman 7 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 62 total)
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  • #606291

    TopNotch
    Pro
    elmwood park, NJ

    I may do a water rough out on a powder room.
    Are sharkbites durable enough for a few fittings?

    I still want to sweat my valves.

    What are my options for anchoring the stub outs?

    Working Pro since 1993

    Tom M

    #606296

    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    Sharkbites are fine. If they don’t leak immediately (because the o-ring is damaged) the probably never will. However, given the cost of them, I would purchase a cheap cinch tool ($40 or so) and make the connections the “right” way.

    If you buy the cinch tool, there is no need to swet the stops in place…you can use pex fittings there too.

    As for the stub outs, you can go with the standard copper which would be connected to pex inside the wall or just run the pex straight out of the wall. Depending on the visibility, you may opt for the copper conversion because it looks a bit nicer than pex to most people.

    For what its worth, I’m completely sold on pex. Its just too easy. Once you try it, its hard to justify using anything else.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #606300

    Pex is great!! I have personally been using it for almost 18 years. Buy the crimper. If you want valves you can get 1/2″ copper stub out that you crimp the pex to. Put a block behind it and screw a clamp over the stub out.

    Sharkbites seem like a failure waiting to happen. They have test where they try and pull a pex crimp fitting apart..the piping failes before the crimp does.

    We have used these a bunch.

    https://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/hydronic-radiant-heat/pex-fittings/metal-pex-fittings/1-2-pex-stub-out-elbow-1-pack/p-1444442705812.htm

    In a cabinet we just crimp on a 1/4 turn valve and use a standoff clamp to the back of the cabinet to hold it solid.

    https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/plumbing-installation-repair/supply-valves/nibco-pex-x-compression-supply-stop-valve-straight-lead-free/p-1444449234177-c-9415.htm?tid=-940298148540433364

    DO NOT USE PEX FROM THE MIXER VALVE TO THE TUB SPOUT!! The smaller i.d. of the crimp fittings causing back pressure and water comes out the shower head and the tub spout at the same time.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #606302

    I agree with @jponto07.buy it online will be cheaper at the end shark bites are nice but 6 $ pex is better in the long run since you doing the job mine as well buy the tool @topnotch. Also shark bites leaked on me at my house when I didn’t have the crimper I used them. Shark bites are Okey crimper is best I rarely solder now. And it’s from copper to pex fitting.

    #606308

    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    @overanalyze, why wouldn’t you opt for this type of stub out?

    https://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/hydronic-radiant-heat/pex-fittings/metal-pex-fittings/stub-out-elbow-1-pack/p-1444442699681-c-9381.htm?tid=8281248032165557183

    It has the plate ready to go, just attach it to a stud.

    In a cabinet we just crimp on a 1/4 turn valve and use a standoff clamp to the back of the cabinet to hold it solid.

    I do the same. The beauty of pex is that it is super flexible and can be installed with far fewer fittings than copper/cpvc. Typically, I will just run the pex out of the wall and anchor it as you described above.

    DO NOT USE PEX FROM THE MIXER VALVE TO THE TUB SPOUT!! The smaller i.d. of the crimp fittings causing back pressure and water comes out the shower head and the tub spout at the same time.

    I’d love to hear this story!

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #606310

    @jponto07 No real story…just did that in one of our rentals and when you run the tub spout water will trickle out of the shower head too. It’s annoying. After a little research most manufactures now tell you not to use pex to the spout because of that.

    That stub out would work nice too. We really rarely use stub outs anymore. We crimpe the valve right to the pex and call it done. The beauty of Pex is minimal fittings..less fitting=less chance of a fitting failure.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #606311

    Austin
    Pro
    Covington, KY

    I look at shark bites as good temporary fittings. Like if you need to cap a pipe during demo or set up a temporary bathroom, something like that. I wouldn’t want to burry them in the wall

    #606325

    TopNotch
    Pro
    elmwood park, NJ

    Well good info on the shower valve Andrew but Im going to need a visual on the stub outs.

    I will likely get the tool as it will be less and less common to break out the solder but a few sharkbites on a small bath seem fine to me.

    MY brain wants to acknowledge them as a better choice because you restricting less water flow than the inside diameter crimped fittings.

    I had this conversation with my plumber once and he felt it was minimal to unnoticeable. IDFK

    I saw the copper bracket you can mount to the studs and slide the transitions through but dint really investigate.

    Working Pro since 1993

    Tom M

    #606326

    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    MY brain wants to acknowledge them as a better choice because you restricting less water flow than the inside diameter crimped fittings.

    I had this conversation with my plumber once and he felt it was minimal to unnoticeable. IDFK

    This is the main reason why installers occasionally upsize the pex tubing. The couplings fit inside the pipe causing a slight restriction, but upsizing the pipe negates this (and makes the materials cost increase unfortunately).

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #606337

    Clev08
    Pro

    I look at shark bites as good temporary fittings. Like if you need to cap a pipe during demo or set up a temporary bathroom, something like that. I wouldn’t want to burry them in the wall

    Same here, we use shark bites to temporarily cap lines until the plumber gets there. But I wouldn’t use a shark bite as a permanent solution.

    #606344

    kswiss
    Pro
    edmonton, AB

    I look at shark bites as good temporary fittings. Like if you need to cap a pipe during demo or set up a temporary bathroom, something like that. I wouldn’t want to burry them in the wall

    Same here, we use shark bites to temporarily cap lines until the plumber gets there. But I wouldn’t use a shark bite as a permanent solution.

    Ya I feel the same way, shark bite fittings are fine but they shouldn’t be concealed.

    #606483

    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Pro
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    At the International Builders Show, SharkBite introduced their Evo-PEX system which is similar to their standard system in how it works but specifically designed for PEX tubing. Their claim was it was faster and less expensive that expansion fittings when you take into consideration the time savings and more economical their standard fittings. It connects to the inside of the pipe instead of the exterior like a standard fitting.

    http://www.sharkbite.com/evopex/

    #606593

    At the International Builders Show, SharkBite introduced their Evo-PEX system which is similar to their standard system in how it works but specifically designed for PEX tubing. Their claim was it was faster and less expensive that expansion fittings when you take into consideration the time savings and more economical their standard fittings. It connects to the inside of the pipe instead of the exterior like a standard fitting.

    http://www.sharkbite.com/evopex/

    That is interesting kurt@welkerhomes.com Seems like maybe they stepped up the quality with those. They would have to be pretty close in price to crimp fitting to make it worth while. A crimp is pretty darn quick.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #606601

    There are, to my knowledge, 2 ways of connecting PEX at the present time. One is a metal ring that you use a crimp tool to clamp it, the other uses a PEX ring that is expanded and slipped over the connection area which shrinks back to clamp the connection. PEX has a memory and tries to go back to its original manufactured size.

    The advantage of PEX is that there are fewer connectors. The tube just bends around a corner instead of needing an elbow. Thus eliminating restrictions and failure points. It can also withstand water being frozen in it and will swell and then return to its original shape without bursting. All good things.

    My home is older and has polybutylene tubing. I have no option, other than re plumbing the whole place, but to use shark bite type fittings. I have had a few in place for a decade with no problem, but they are a pain to get tight enough sometimes.

    If I were to replace it all, I would go PEX and shrink type connectors, not shark bite. I would plumb to each appliance. I would have a manifold style system where the main feed goes to a cold water manifold and the hot water tank which would exit the tank to the hot water manifold. Then each appliance gets its own feed line with a shut off at the manifold. The tubing is relatively inexpensive.

    My You Tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA5AretE3xPoVDV61AxUdUA

    I don't do a fast job. I don't do a slow job. I do a half fast job.

    #606648

    kswiss
    Pro
    edmonton, AB

    The disadvantage of crimped pex is size reduction in the fittings. If you go with crimped I think it’s almost better to do multiple manifolds around the house rather than a central manifold to avoid pressure drop. Of course with expanding pex like uponor you don’t have any issues because there is no size reduction with the fittings.

    #606665

    A true, home-run, manafold system like Manablock or others will be a pressure balance system. For me personally I feel a central manafold system right by the water heater with home run lines for every fixture is the best. Hot water delivery is fast and water pressure is balanced in the entire home. I did this in my personal home. There are only 2 connections in each line, one at tue fixture and the one at the manafold.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #606671

    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    There are 3 types of PEX, A, B, and C.

    C is not approved for water distribution lines.

    B is a second-grade piping product that utilizes crimp connectors. Along with flow restriction issues, crimp connectors have failed in the past, and it is basically the same system as what was used with PB. Most of us know about that fiasco, which resulted in multi-million dollar class-action lawsuits, and millions of plumbing retrofits.

    The third type is A PEX, which is the strongest and so far, longest lasting of the 3. It utilizes a proprietary tool that expands the pipe, and then shrinks back down over the fitting. This is the product that OA was referring to, about the pipe failing before the fitting.

    Type A PEX is currently only manufactured by Uponor, last I heard, and you can’t buy the product until you get certified. Certification is free, and takes about 4 hours. Milwaukee is currently the only company I know of that manufactures an expansion tool for Type A PEX. There has been an ongoing wear test at Uponor for over 40 years, and so far, no failures.

    Personally, I would never install anything but Type A. But I don’t do a lot of PEX, I prefer copper.

    As far as Sharkbites, they are approved for concealed locations, and there hasn’t been many, if any failures. The fear is not based on fact. They are, however, phenomenally expensive. I use them in areas where I have a repair in a very hard to reach area, or the copper is so old and thin that I can’t get a good solder.

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #606672

    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    One other thing;

    You can usually build a Manifold much cheaper than you can buy one, and of far better quality. And it can be perfectly customized for the specific application.

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #606685

    TopNotch
    Pro
    elmwood park, NJ

    I don’t know what the cost is to set up the crimp route but I bet those sharkbites improve and phase them out.

    It’s so simple

    Working Pro since 1993

    Tom M

    #606694

    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Pro
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    Type A PEX is currently only manufactured by Uponor, last I heard, and you can’t buy the product until you get certified. Certification is free, and takes about 4 hours. Milwaukee is currently the only company I know of that manufactures an expansion tool for Type A PEX. There has been an ongoing wear test at Uponor for over 40 years, and so far, no failures.

    Delta

    Uponor also makes a proprietary expansion tools with their own name on them. Most of the guys that use pex around here use the Uponor tools.

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