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"Rotting" ABS Pipe

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  • #338856
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    The only place I’ve seen this is in a couple of commercial kitchen where I do service and repair work.

    The ABS pipe right at the fitting breaks off very easily. Every time I go to fix a leak, I just plan on replacing pipe several feet back from the leak.

    I had thought either physical abuse, because most of this piping is exposed under the sinks, or a chemical, but 1 of the restaurants I happen to know that there is nothing harsh going down the drain. I don’t think the grease is acidic enough to cause this, but I don’t know for sure.

    Any other plumbers ever run into this issue?

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #338860
    58Chev
    Pro
    Etobicoke, ON

    Thinking out loud…. 😀
    Do they have dishwashers draining in these pipes? Commercial detergents might be a bit more caustic than household detergents.

    “If you don’t pass on the knowledge you have to others, it Dies with you”
    — Glenn Botting

    #338872
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    I could be the heat from the water. Commercial kitchens need hotter water than a household kitchen. I know heat really accelerates the deterioration of plastics.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #338875
    kswiss
    Pro
    edmonton, AB

    Probably too much heat. If it is within the budget I would switch out to copper drainage, at least for the first few feet. If you replace it with abs you will have to keep going back to fix it.

    #338887
    Toolshead
    Pro
    In the Rice Fields, South TX

    I would suspect excessive temperature.

    http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/Specs/Spec_ABS_Cell_Core_DWV.pdf spec says for example “This specification covers ABS cellular core (foam core) pipe and ABS DWV fittings used in sanitary drain, waste and vent (DWV), sewer, and storm drainage applications. This system is intended for use in non-pressure applications where the operating temperature will not exceed 140° F.”

    However, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher says “Washing is conducted with 65-71 C / 150-160 F temperatures and sanitation is achieved by either the use of a booster heater that will provide the machine 82 C / 180 F “final rinse” temperature or through the use of a chemical sanitizer.”

    and BC Centre for Disease Control at
    http://www.bccdc.ca/NR/rdonlyres/558797A0-F492-43D7-ACE3-260D5E726380/0/GuidelinesMechanicalWarewashinginFoodServiceEstablishmentswebformatJan2013.pdf
    says “The temperature of the wash water in spray type dishwashers that use hot water to sanitize should be at least 66°C to 74°C (150°F to 165°F) depending on machine type”.

    #338888
    cranbrook2
    Pro
    Belgrave, Ontario , Canada

    I have never heard of ABS rotting before .

    #338896
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    Rotting was in quotes, for lack of a better word.

    The dishwasher/sanitizers are either chemical (low-temp) in one, and high temp in another.

    The rinse temp is in fact 185 degrees, I know, because I installed the dish machine, and replaced the booster heater. I also installed the water heater, and set it at 145 degrees, as per health dept regs.

    The high temp dish machines use a Sodium Hydroxide solution, basically ,lye.

    However, this condition is present even in areas where high temp dish machine water never flows, which is why I began looking for other possible causes.

    It takes a few years for it to get this way, but I’ve removed 40 or 50 year old ABS in other commercial and residential buildings, and never seen it get brittle at the joints.

    I don’t think DWV copper would work with the Sodium Hydroxide solutions that are common in restaurants.

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #338941
    crotalusco
    Pro
    west bend, wi

    I was originally thinking the heat like many others mentioned beyond that I just wouldnt know. Is it strapped well to the wall? excessive movement?

    #338969
    NJBuilder
    Pro
    Brick, NJ, 500,000 HAM

    Job security? Lol. Sure is strange

    #338971
    TopNotch
    Pro
    elmwood park, NJ

    Never heard of ABS rotting before. Truthfully we never use it in Jersey. I did a small kitchen in NY and I changed out the glue up trap. I was surprised that no primer is required.

    Working Pro since 1993

    Tom M

    #338974
    NJBuilder
    Pro
    Brick, NJ, 500,000 HAM

    Never heard of ABS rotting before. Truthfully we never use it in Jersey. I did a small kitchen in NY and I changed out the glue up trap. I was surprised that no primer is required.

    I’ve only seen it on older homes and certain neighborhoods. It was barely used by me I think.

    #339000
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    Maybe try asking them what they are dumping down the drains. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s heat related as well.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #339034
    kswiss
    Pro
    edmonton, AB

    Abs is not very good for chemical resistance anyways. Maybe try replacing with pvc drainage?

    #339035
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    Abs is not very good for chemical resistance anyways. Maybe try replacing with pvc drainage?

    Is PVC more chemically resistant? I don’t think it would be much of an improvement if the issue was temperature related.

    Without knowing What is responsible for degrading the ABS, I would expect copper to be the most resilient solution.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #339042
    kswiss
    Pro
    edmonton, AB

    Pvc is generally better for drainage of oils and chemicals. It will also be more resistant to heat than the abs. I still think copper is the way to go for this situation. I doubt the chemicals will have much of an effect on the copper.

    #339070
    staker
    Pro

    Could it be that they are using draino to clean the drains and leaving it to long?

    #339138
    r-ice
    Pro
    Durham region, ON

    wow I’ve never seen abs rotting either, unless they were washing down solvents and the like.

    #339674
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    Don’t think Drano is used. It reeks havoc on grease traps.

    Probably a combination of physical abuse and high temperatures.

    I think the owners could have me fix it half a dozen times, before it would pay to upgrade to cast iron or DWV copper.

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #340117

    Wow – never heard of this before. banging the pipes around makes sense, but I cannot imagine the dishwasher water causing the pipe to get hot enough to melt it.

    Orange County, CA

    #340523
    jdw1865
    Pro
    Dewey, OK

    What about the oxidizing cleaners/sanitizers? Like Oxiclean as an example. Another way out there thing I could think of was UV radiation. No source of that is there? I know that some food handling areas using UV to sanitize.

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