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Repair VS Replace Concrete Garage Pad

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  • #730615
    arjunsw
    Pro

    Hello Everyone,

    I recently purchased a 1964 house in Edmonton Alberta where typical weather goes below -40 in winters. The garage pad and driveway concrete is in bad shape with large cracks and uneven floor. Looks like it settled a lot over 50years. It also seems the existing concrete is 3” and has no rebar. The garage floor also is about a foot under the exterior landscape level which can be another problem.

    Size of the garage is 24×24 which I plan to salvage because of good condition of the structure. I will have a mobile home moving company come and lift it for me.

    I have had a few contractors come and look at the pad and I got 2 different solutions which is confusing.

    1. Remove the old concrete completely and put pour new concrete. I am confused as to how can I resolve the yard being higher than existing garage level

    2. Keep the existing concrete as it has been there for so long and settled over the years form on the boundary put rebar and 4” gravel on top and pour concrete creating a slab over which will also raise the floor level above the yard.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you!

    #730626
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    I personally would remove and replace.

    If drainage is good, and there is a footing drain, there shouldn’t be a problem with the garage slab being lower.

    Are there any signs of water intrusion right now?

    Putting a topping over it is going to create a whole ‘nother set of issues with doorways, the bottoms of walls, outlet heights, and on and on.

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #730627
    arjunsw
    Pro

    Hi, Thank you.. There are no water intrusion signs right now. So maybe I will just raise the garage wooden frame up with a concrete lip so the water from outside does not damage the word..

    You also bring a good point of loosing garage height with additional concrete.. I am thinking I maybe able to get away with it by lifting the garage frame too, but that needs to be evaluated too.. 🤔

    I really appreciate your help!

    #730629
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    My favorite way to build garages is with a couple courses of block, or about 16″ of concrete, as a sidewall, and the wood framed wall on top.

    Makes framing a little trickier, but makes an excellent work area.

    If you’re going to lift the structure, I would just remove the old slab, new footings if needed, footing drains, and set a couple courses of block, then set the structure back down.

    Check with the building dept to see if they have height limits in your neighborhood first.

    Is it cheaper to try to salvage the structure, rather than demo the whole thing and rebuild it?

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #730631
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    One little aside…..

    This is a nice site, but not everyone here is a professional builder/Contractor.

    There are a lot of diy’ers and woodworkers here as well. So be aware of where the advice is coming from.

    Unfortunately, the site has not developed a method of identifying those of us who are professional builders.

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #730651
    CB
    Pro

    The third image appears to show a high water mark fading transition line about a foot above the garage floor.

    That doesn’t suggest that the water level in the garage was that high, but it does suggest some wicking and/or saturation of the paper liner of the drywall, that has experienced wet/dry cycles.

    Additionally, the mudsill doesn’t appear to be pressure treated. I don’t know what species of wood was used in Canada 55 years ago for mudsills in non habitable structures… but I’d want to look more carefully at that.

    In fact, before making any decision to save the existing structure, I’d want to evaluate it. To do so, I’d saw cut the depth of the drywall horizontally 24″ up from the mudsill all the way around the perimeter of the garage, and check for dry rot, insect infestation, or previous evidence of termites or other structural pests indigenous to your area that thrive on ground contact of dead wood.

    If you find that the garage framing has good solid bones, then there might be advantages to lifting and saving it, over complete demo and starting over, depending on the jurisdictional considerations in your area.

    Some AHJ’s allow the grandfathering of existing building setbacks relative to lot lines, that they will not allow when the existing structure is destroyed and rebuilt. If this is the case in your area, you might be forced to live with a smaller garage if you tear down and start new, whereas you would be allowed to keep the size of your current garage if you simply “remodel” it, without taking it down.

    Some AHJ’s will not charge extra permitting assessments… such as school fees, park fees, and other community infrastructural fees… when you are only remodeling an existing structure, maintaining at least one or two original walls, or whatever other BS arbitrary rule they invent to draw the line of distinction between remodel vs new construction.

    So these considerations, that have nothing to do with your structural or drainage result, are still equally significant to factor into the final cost when comparing courses of action.

    As for the brass tacks of how to solve the dilemna of the concrete floor, driveway, and garage foundation…

    If the non PT mudsill were sound, I’d use it as a bottom plate, add a PT mudsill one size wider (ie, 2×6 if your existing is 2×4), have the moving company raise the building high enough to set back down at a higher elevation, saw cut the concrete floor around the interior perimeter, excavate the perimeter concrete and dirt under the walls… down to below the frost line or wherever your local soils engineer advises… and that advice may include drilling piers…

    And all of the foregoing would be preparatory for pouring an inverted T grade beam as a perimeter foundation of contiguous steel reinforced concrete, with seismic J bolts or retention devices as directed by the codes in your area. This grade beam can be on piers (depending on soils engineer… a single story garage isn’t that great of a load, but if your area is subject to frost heave or your soils are active… again it depends).

    The grade beam would be entirely independent of the floor slab. You could keep what remains of the existing dilapidated floor slab in place (that was not removed after the perimeter saw cut and excavation), and save the expense of pouring a new floor for another day, or another round of paychecks.

    The important part here is the load path of the structure, which is all around the perimeter of the building. That needs to be elevated above the soil, and well supported beneath (hence the inverted T). I would choose a contiguously formed and poured, rebar cage reinforced grade beam over a component block wall in this applicaton.

    The perimeter foundation can easily provide the 1′ rise that you are looking for the walls to be above surface drainage on the surrounding landscape, and the floor of the garage can be well below the new location of the mudsill on top of the new perimeter foundation.

    As for the exterior driveway, I’d probably go with a more water permeable surface like pavers, to reduce the amount of hard runoff flow on the driveway.

    The perimeter foundation would obviously benefit from a perimeter drainage system… but the contractors you are hiring should know how to do that, or the inspector should catch when and if they do not.

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can't Be The Pro... Be the Poster you'd want to read.

    #730674
    arjunsw
    Pro

    Hello again,

    Thank you for your valuable advise. You helped me think quite clearly.

    Kind Regards,
    Arjun

    #730676
    arjunsw
    Pro

    Thank you very much for your detailed response. This will help me greatly while discussing with the local contractor here.. this is amazing!

    #730804
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Looking at pic #2 it appears that the left side of the structure closest to the fence has sunk significantly into the ground. If this is the case, option 1 is what you should do. I don’t even like option 2 regardless.

    #730919
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    Are the cracks due to frost heave or soil settlements?

    Any cracks around windows and door corners? This is wood framed or concrete walls?

    #731125
    arjunsw
    Pro

    Hello Everyone,

    Thank you for all your valuable suggestions. I wanted to send an update.. I got the sewerage line traced and inspected. It was passing through under the garage where the pad heaved badly. As suspected it was badly damaged which explains the settlement.

    I just got the sewer line replaced today using directional drilling. Now I plan to lift the garage structure and go ahead with option 1.

    I have been told to ask our concrete contractor to use Dura Miix.. Is there any advise regarding the concrete that should be requested for this garage and pad?

    #731163
    smallerstick
    Pro
    North Bay, ON

    One little aside…..

    This is a nice site, but not everyone here is a professional builder/Contractor.

    There are a lot of diy’ers and woodworkers here as well. So be aware of where the advice is coming from.

    Unfortunately, the site has not developed a method of identifying those of us who are professional builders.

    This bears repeating. Now I wish there was a way to convince those with no PROFESSIONAL expertise to simply butt out of these threads.

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.

    #731179
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    This bears repeating. Now I wish there was a way to convince those with no PROFESSIONAL expertise to simply butt out of these threads.

    Well, I didn’t really mean it like that. 😆

    I do wish the Admins would make a way for the members to be distinguished. After all, it is called “Be The Pro”.

    I also think it could be potentially dangerous for those looking for help, to not know at least a little of the background of those who are giving the advice.

    Then again, I guess the advice is worth exactly as much as it costs. 😮 😆

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #731189

    Looking at second pic it appears that the left side of the structure closest to the fence has sunk significantly into the ground. If this is the case, option 1 is what you should do. I don’t even like option 2 regardless. I know the guys who do the best and in low cost visit or contact them.www.biddingconsultants.co/

    #731202
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Looking at second pic it appears that the left side of the structure closest to the fence has sunk significantly into the ground. If this is the case, option 1 is what you should do. I don’t even like option 2 regardless. I know the guys who do the best and in low cost visit or contact them.www.biddingconsultants.co/

    @chadm

    Spam/self-solicitation?

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