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You could put in a spline on the ends. Just get the right router bit and it’s really not too bad.
It depends on the finished look you’re going for. If you want it clean, go with a spline, dowels, or milling a T&G. If you want more character, plugs would be a good choice.
I’m no expert, since I’ve only installed about a dozen hardwood floors, but i think making yourself a little jig to drill and dowel would give you a cleaner look. By the time your done plugging your screws it would probably be the same amount of time in terms of additional labour.
I like that idea although I can cut face grain plugs; dowels would be end grain.
I was thinking of dowels laterally sunk an inch or so into the ends.
I guess I was having a senior moment when I read your initial post. Sorry I misread it. Dowels would be good for holding alignment.
You could put in a spline on the ends. Just get the right router bit and it’s really not too bad.
It depends on the finished look you’re going for. If you want it clean, go with a spline, dowels, or milling a T&G. If you want more character, plugs would be a good choice.
I think I still have the 1/4″ flycutter I have used in the past to cut grooves in hardwood.
The house is 100+ years old so plugs would definitely not be out of place and the look appeals to me. Maybe take a belt and suspenders approach and both spline and screw and plug.
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.If you want more character, plugs would be a good choice.
In a 100+ year old house I agree plugs would be the way to go to maintain the look.
Automotive Pro
Fayetteville, NCIn my mind, you could maybe still use dowels or biscuits or even better would be Dominos, but spaced fairly closely together. You simply don’t want what may be two butt ended pieces that want to cup to be able to cup. You are looking to keep the integrity along the edge of the butt ended pieces from being able to do so. But with some of those alternatives, unless you also glue the butt faces also, it may not work with the exception of using Dominos that also offer some vertical plane strength due to their linear nature. Still, even Dominos may not even be sufficient.
Dowels, biscuits and regular Dominos are made of beechwood. Beechwood is very moisture sensitive and has very poor shear strength which is what they would be mostly subject to in such an application although you could use much more expensive SIPO/Mahogany Dominos that are generally intended for outdoor projects. Theirs also the risk the beechwood expands to the point that they either radiate onto the surface especially if the butt ends are not glued. Softer woods are more prone to this effect, hardwoods are less apt, but instead, can cause splitting along the end instead which is worse.
With making T&G or spline it will offer the best assurance of stability over what may be also be the added need to glue the face of the butt ends, which in itself can lead to other problematic issues. Solid wood expansion/contraction happens mostly along the width and very little to its length. Don’t confuse seasonal gaping that we see can happen to laminate flooring where the pieces on their butt ends can have significant separation on the butt ends. Solid wood doesn’t perform the same with seasonal changes. Length contraction/expansion is very minimal, but in hardwood flooring, and again I’m not the expert but understand wood movement pretty good, I wouldn’t chance it anyways with gluing up the butt ends in joinery over long stretches that you are dealing with. Also don’t confuse it with man-made flooring in a sense like plastic/PVC/Trex lumber used for decking. That stuff does expand along its length A LOT, and proper gaping of butt ends is necessary.
It’s hard for anybody to advise on this kind of thing in some respects. Reason being is that we all live in different climes. What may work for one guy with a said wood, doesn’t work for another guy in another part of the country/world due to the environment he is located in. It’s also a variable of the wood you are using. That same species of wood you have, may not be quite the same as that species your neighbor used with success in the same way he applied it. Sometimes it can boil down to how do you acclimatize your house or how efficient your HVAC system is from season to season. Natural woods are a strange hit and miss sensitive beast in that regard.
Should you do trying to T&G the butt ends, which is where I’d be leaning to, is another tricky option. You don’t do it right, you’ll end up with unsightly tearout. Sacrificial pieces in doing so are likely necessary in whatever method you use. It somewhat depends on what equipment you have on hand. I would think setting up a purposed jig of some sort using a router is the most likely/practical. Don’t ask me what setup you need for that option. Me, I’d be looking at a T&G bit to do in one pass. Whether I could do it on my Jessem is another question. I’m somewhat lost on this option and its execution as I’ve never done it before with such longish pieces that need their butt ends detailed as such repeatedly such as in your case would be needed.
FWIW. Good luck!
Just a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks. Milling will follow and it should be ready to bring home just before the end of July.
Stay tuned…
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.Just a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks.
Wow I had no idea wood spent so much time in a kiln to dry out.
Automotive Pro
Fayetteville, NCJust a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks.
Wow I had no idea wood spent so much time in a kiln to dry out.
Drying time is dependent on thickness among other things. 4/4 usually takes one 2 week cycle. If moisture has not been reduced enough, it will get another cycle. Some 8/4 and 12/4 slabs will take 3 or more cycles to dry properly.
This particular kiln is home built, wood fired and doesn’t have steam. Steam kilns are faster but more involved to operate. I’ll try to get some pictures next time I’m out at the mill.
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.Just a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks.
Wow I had no idea wood spent so much time in a kiln to dry out.
Drying time is dependent on thickness among other things. 4/4 usually takes one 2 week cycle. If moisture has not been reduced enough, it will get another cycle. Some 8/4 and 12/4 slabs will take 3 or more cycles to dry properly.
This particular kiln is home built, wood fired and doesn’t have steam. Steam kilns are faster but more involved to operate. I’ll try to get some pictures next time I’m out at the mill.
Wow, that’s going to look great Peter, definitely signed up for this thread
I have done a few hardwood floors, as Eric @montreal_woodworks mentioned, it’s preferable to get it in the rooms and let it get accustomed to the new climate before installing, I assume it would be the same with these,
And I would probably do that T&G at home ends to.Good luck, looking forward to seeing what it’s gonna look like.
Just a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks.
Wow I had no idea wood spent so much time in a kiln to dry out.
Drying time is dependent on thickness among other things. 4/4 usually takes one 2 week cycle. If moisture has not been reduced enough, it will get another cycle. Some 8/4 and 12/4 slabs will take 3 or more cycles to dry properly.
This particular kiln is home built, wood fired and doesn’t have steam. Steam kilns are faster but more involved to operate. I’ll try to get some pictures next time I’m out at the mill.
It would be nice to see pictures of the Kiln. Have you decide how you going do the floor?
Greg
Do More of What Makes You HappyJust a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks.
Wow I had no idea wood spent so much time in a kiln to dry out.
Drying time is dependent on thickness among other things. 4/4 usually takes one 2 week cycle. If moisture has not been reduced enough, it will get another cycle. Some 8/4 and 12/4 slabs will take 3 or more cycles to dry properly.
This particular kiln is home built, wood fired and doesn’t have steam. Steam kilns are faster but more involved to operate. I’ll try to get some pictures next time I’m out at the mill.
It would be nice to see pictures of the Kiln. Have you decide how you going do the floor?
I will likely use splines and screws and plugs for the end joints. I’ll try to get pics of the whole mill setup when I am there next. Lots of innovative machinery there.
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.Just a quick update; the oak is in the kiln now and will be there for the next 2 weeks.
Wow I had no idea wood spent so much time in a kiln to dry out.
Drying time is dependent on thickness among other things. 4/4 usually takes one 2 week cycle. If moisture has not been reduced enough, it will get another cycle. Some 8/4 and 12/4 slabs will take 3 or more cycles to dry properly.
This particular kiln is home built, wood fired and doesn’t have steam. Steam kilns are faster but more involved to operate. I’ll try to get some pictures next time I’m out at the mill.
It would be nice to see pictures of the Kiln. Have you decide how you going do the floor?
I will likely use splines and screws and plugs for the end joints. I’ll try to get pics of the whole mill setup when I am there next. Lots of innovative machinery there.
Look forward too see the pictures when you post them. I love seeing stuff like this.
Greg
Do More of What Makes You HappyThis particular kiln is home built, wood fired
Wood fired to boot, that is a lot of work to keep it going day and night. I really had no idea on that. I figured kiln dried meant it took a few hours in the oven and done.
Automotive Pro
Fayetteville, NCThis particular kiln is home built, wood fired
Wood fired to boot, that is a lot of work to keep it going day and night. I really had no idea on that. I figured kiln dried meant it took a few hours in the oven and done.
We have a large Mennonite community here and some still do not use electricity from the grid. This mill is an example of “hybrid” power. The bandsaw mill is driven by an old air cooled diesel, a team drags the logs to the mill, the kiln is wood fired and the saws and planers are powered by a generator.
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.Sounds like a interesting operation. Wood fired kiln is great idea as this gets rid of waste wood.
We have Amish Community now in my area. I was at Amish’s sawmill a few years back. A friend of mine had some logs sawed by them. I went and picked up some lumber there. I ended up getting tour by the Amish guy. It was small band saw mill & edger. The operation was set up for 3 people to run it.
Greg
Do More of What Makes You HappyWe have a large Mennonite community here
That explains it then. I bet that kiln is an interesting operation keeping a fire going 24/7
Automotive Pro
Fayetteville, NCI went today to check on the progress of the floor. The oak is just out of the kiln and is waiting to be milled.
I had a chance to see the inside of the kiln as it was being reloaded and got some pics of the system.
The kiln is heated by a gravity fed hot water system fed by inlet and outlet manifolds on each end. The curtains can be drawn down to direct air flow to all parts of the load. The boiler is 4′ dia by 12′ long and is wood fired. Slabs from the sawmill provide the fuel. The fans seen at the top are driven by a 3 cylinder Kubota deisel; it’s got 25,000 hours on it so far but just won’t quit.
There are a couple of pics of the material handling system; the lift truck is hand operated hydraulic and a hand chain hoist is used for loading and unloading trucks and wagons.
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.I went today to check on the progress of the floor. The oak is just out of the kiln and is waiting to be milled.
I had a chance to see the inside of the kiln as it was being reloaded and got some pics of the system.
The kiln is heated by a gravity fed hot water system fed by inlet and outlet manifolds on each end. The curtains can be drawn down to direct air flow to all parts of the load. The boiler is 4′ dia by 12′ long and is wood fired. Slabs from the sawmill provide the fuel. The fans seen at the top are driven by a 3 cylinder Kubota deisel; it’s got 25,000 hours on it so far but just won’t quit.
There are a couple of pics of the material handling system; the lift truck is hand operated hydraulic and a hand chain hoist is used for loading and unloading trucks and wagons.
That is a interesting set up . That Kubota is one strong motor. Thanks Peter for taking the time take the pictures and sharing them.
Greg
Do More of What Makes You HappyI went today to check on the progress of the floor. The oak is just out of the kiln and is waiting to be milled.
Wow what a neat set up. 25,000 hours on the diesel, that is impressive.
Automotive Pro
Fayetteville, NCFloor is finished and ready for pick up. I will get it home Friday very likely. Pics to follow.
BE the change you want to see.
Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.
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