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New Bosch CORE18V Battery

This topic contains 384 replies, has 30 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Alex madman_us 2 days, 2 hours ago.

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  • #604992
    Profile photo of Éric
    Montreal_Medic
    Pro
    Montreal, Quebec

    For those of you who are of an “engineer” mindset, I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to the new Bosch CORE18V battery (Eneracer in most of the world, CORE18V in North America)

    The big difference here is that Bosch is moving to 20700 battery cells rather than the 18650 cells that are common in the industry. These cells are bigger, and have a better discharge rate. Also, they have a much bigger volume for the slight increase in height and width, allowing for better capacity in less space – which in turn leaves more room for smarter electronics and cooling

    A really good resource describing the different cells, that specifically mentions the Core battery
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?419832-Tesla-s-gigafactory-dropping-18650-s-and-going-with-20700-per-Elon-Musk/page2&s=0aacba22eba61cc44944632cfe7006b4

    @madman_us – mind putting your info here? Very detailed and appreciated

    They are fully cross-compatible, meaning new tools run on either battery, and old (li-Ion 18v) tools also run on either battery.

    But, like the difference between the 4.0 and 2.0 ah batteries on some tools (the IDH182 impact driver can take off lug nuts with a 4.0 but not a 2.0, pretty obvious difference in grunt) there is a difference in performance using a core 6.3. So if you want the tool at its absolute best, a core 6.3 will provide the best possible advantages as of today. But not all tools will see a difference anyways

    A german video I watched showed a guy putting an RPM meter on his 18v circular saw. He got a roughly 10% faster spin speed using the core as compared to the 4.0. He got a similar gain between the 2.0 and the 4.0

    I think it is fair to say that for any tool that works the same between the 2.0 and 4.0, the main benefit here is going to be run time. For anything that has a real difference between the 2.0 and 4.0, there MAY be a performance bump, up to whatever the limit of the tool is.

    #605003

    Its good that you open this thread so people can understand what is diffrent between current batteries bosch and other companies make compare to this one they are using better cell technology that outlast the current 18650 cell batteries. Its better technology then other compitations ones. Other companies just using more cell to create more ah. Battery bosch it doing the oppsite they keeping the size and weight down while giving you better power

    #605004

    The current Bosch 6.0 battery has 800watt of power and the new Core has 1500watt of power. Yes you won’t get much more runtime…only a little bit but that’s not the point of this battery.
    Milwaukee announced their 9.0 battery early 2016 and it hit the market somewhere in October 2016. Reason?! (Probably) they were not able to manage the heat which is created from the cells. There are air pockets around the cells, boxed in a plastic case. loading up a battery pack with more cells creates more heat and higher risk that cells are breaking (overtime by usage/ and heat).
    The cells create heat when the power/electric withdraws by the tool. The heat needs to be eliminated or drawn away from the cells asap or the stored power deteriorates.
    Bosch had to invent a 2.0 cool pack the core battery to manage the heat.
    flexvolt and the 9.0?! no changes in their “system”
    The current Bosch tools are able to use the extra juice from the new Core battery. I experienced a difference in using a 6.0 and the 6.3 on the HDH183, GSA18V-125 (the ergonomic recip saw), on the bulldog etc.
    Bosch will announce new tools this year which need those new core batteries and there is more to come….as I said new tools and new/more batteries.
    Another point is the quality of the battery.
    Bosch uses a new laser welding on a cooper plate for the best way to conduct electricity from the cells. Flexvolt has some wires soldered to aluminum plates and the 9.0 only has aluminum plates.
    The size and weight of a battery matters too. the core is smaller and has less weight than the other competitor batteries.
    I could write much much more about it…but I guess it should be enough for now tho

    "If you're going to do something, do it right the first time"
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    #605006
    Profile photo of Charlie
    cmeyer25
    Pro
    Bellingham, WA

    One thing I saw someone mention on the live feed from WOC, was that copper degrades more than aluminum…is that going to be an issue in these batteries, or does the case keep the oxygen away that would be corrosive? Or am I totally off in left field here? (I hadn’t even thought of corrosion until it was mentioned in that feed)
    @montreal_medic
    @madman_us

    Charlie
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    #605007
    Profile photo of Éric
    Montreal_Medic
    Pro
    Montreal, Quebec

    One thing I saw someone mention on the live feed from WOC, was that copper degrades more than aluminum…is that going to be an issue in these batteries, or does the case keep the oxygen away that would be corrosive? Or am I totally off in left field here? (I hadn’t even thought of corrosion until it was mentioned in that feed)

    No, you’re right. Thats why aluminium is used at the Cathode side of the battery collector

    Its not a problem, just a design constraint 🙂

    #605010
    Profile photo of Kevin
    Doobie
    Pro
    Ajax, ON

    Thanks for starting this thread. Not because it didn’t really belong in the Toolaholic thread, but because of the great insight into what you guys know about this new level of battery tech and it otherwise getting lost in the other thread.

    I had no idea this was such a leap in battery technology. I think I still should read all this again to get my head wrapped around this sometime later.

    Kevin.

    #605014
    Profile photo of Éric
    Montreal_Medic
    Pro
    Montreal, Quebec

    For a fun comparison, the really cool Ego 56v and the DeWalt Flexvolt just use 18650 cells (15 of them)

    The flex volt innovation is a very very intelligent switch to determine how many 3.6v cells to run at a time, meaning it basically runs either as a more powerful 54v (60v max-ish) and has less battery life, or it is an 18v with a longer life. I think the 6.0 AH flex volt is only 2ah when running at 54v

    The Ego is pretty much the same, but just huge cooling tech to support the discharge rate, and no switch option to drop the voltage to extend battery life. It is also much bigger at 7.5ah at 54v (so about quadruple the 18650 cells used in the 6.0ah flex volt)

    #605022

    For a fun comparison, the really cool Ego 56v and the DeWalt Flexvolt just use 18650 cells (15 of them)

    The flex volt innovation is a very very intelligent switch to determine how many 3.6v cells to run at a time, meaning it basically runs either as a more powerful 54v (60v max-ish) and has less battery life, or it is an 18v with a longer life. I think the 6.0 AH flex volt is only 2ah when running at 54v

    The Ego is pretty much the same, but just huge cooling tech to support the discharge rate, and no switch option to drop the voltage to extend battery life. It is also much bigger at 7.5ah at 54v (so about quadruple the 18650 cells used in the 6.0ah flex volt)

    Yeah Eric, you are right man…about the 6.0Ah 54v battery being small in Ah rate on 54v tools.
    This is why they got the 9.0Ah, with this one, team yellow is using the bigger cells(20700) like Core from Bosch….and yeah using the 6.0Ah 54v flexvolt battery is around 2.0Ah and the 9.0Ah kinda 3.0Ah.
    The thing is, with 54v tools and 54v batteries you get a more powerful (stronger) tool, see videos of the circular saw…and giving the 18v tools a little longer runtime plus a little kick in power.
    Let’s wait and see in which way this battery racing in heading into…Bosch took a step further, dealing very well with heat…which we know, is the main problem to deal with…it kills the cells.
    There are many people questioning about Core 18v 6.3…but an important thing to understand about Core 18v 6.3…it is not just a matter of runtime.

    #605023
    Profile photo of Éric
    Montreal_Medic
    Pro
    Montreal, Quebec

    For a fun comparison, the really cool Ego 56v and the DeWalt Flexvolt just use 18650 cells (15 of them)

    The flex volt innovation is a very very intelligent switch to determine how many 3.6v cells to run at a time, meaning it basically runs either as a more powerful 54v (60v max-ish) and has less battery life, or it is an 18v with a longer life. I think the 6.0 AH flex volt is only 2ah when running at 54v

    The Ego is pretty much the same, but just huge cooling tech to support the discharge rate, and no switch option to drop the voltage to extend battery life. It is also much bigger at 7.5ah at 54v (so about quadruple the 18650 cells used in the 6.0ah flex volt)

    Yeah Eric, you are right man…about the 6.0Ah 54v battery being small in Ah rate on 54v tools.
    This is why they got the 9.0Ah, with this one, team yellow is using the bigger cells(20700) like Core from Bosch….and yeah using the 6.0Ah 54v flexvolt battery is around 2.0Ah and the 9.0Ah kinda 3.0Ah.
    The thing is, with 54v tools and 54v batteries you get a more powerful (stronger) tool, see videos of the circular saw…and giving the 18v tools a little longer runtime plus a little kick in power.
    Let’s wait and see in which way this battery racing in heading into…Bosch took a step further, dealing very well with heat…which we know, is the main problem to deal with…it kills the cells.
    There are many people questioning about Core 18v 6.3…but an important thing to understand about Core 18v 6.3…it is not just a matter of runtime.

    I really believe that some of the tools out there are right up against the upper limit of what you can do with 18650s and that Bosch could have chosen to release a whole lineup to try to match them, or to move to the next level and then launch tools that can blow away what the others have

    Im really hopeful for a brushless circular saw, maybe one that rides on the new tracks – or even better, bringing over an 18v brushless track saw

    Either way, this battery gives them a huge opportunity to get back in the game. I hope they seize it

    #605055
    Profile photo of Brian
    Boschmanbrian
    Pro
    Montreal , QC, Canada

    Great thread, packed with good information on a very nice and upcoming battery technology.
    Definitely will be following this one along.
    Maybe Bosch was working on this to better solve runtime on the more powerful cordless tools they are thinking of putting out.
    I mean what’s the use of having powerful cordless tools, if you don’t have the gas (battery power) to run them.

    Very interesting.

    #605090
    Profile photo of Austin
    Austin
    Pro
    Covington, KY

    I think most people don’t realize how good this new battery is. For the past decade everyone has used the same set up for lithium ion batteries in tools so there has always been an apples to apple comparison. Like if this brand had a 3ah battery and this brand had a 4ah battery it was an easy comparison. Also this made everyone used to just judging a battery by the amount of amp hours. So I think a lot of people will look at this new core battery and see that its “only .3 more amp hours than their last battery” when in reality its so much more. I wish bosch was better at marketing this in a way that made it sound more powerful because they are going to loose plenty of sales to Milwaukee because 90% of people out there will think that their 9ah is almost 50% more powerful than this battery.

    #605101

    Great info here guys. Thanks to those in the know for sharing their insights. I learned a lot and will be anxious to see what comes down the pipe. Cordless router anyone? Or how about a sander? Exciting to say the least.

    #605111
    Profile photo of Dirty
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    Will these new better batteries have a lifetime warranty??

    Dirty

    A Working Pro since 1988!

    Member since January 26, 2013.

    #605112
    Profile photo of Kyle
    kswiss
    Pro
    edmonton, AB

    Does anyone know how these batteries compare to the new ones that Metabo recently released? I heard that they were going with something different as well just wondering if the technology is related?

    @madman_us I’m thinking you would know since you have the German connections with the tool companies

    #605132
    Profile photo of Bill
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    From the videos I have seen the new Core batteries sound exciting. 100% backwards compatible is nice and all the vids say they were developed to power some new tools coming out so I guess we can expect some new tools that will take advantage of the new power. The price is kinda high though. $149 each, ouch.

    #605140
    Profile photo of Frank
    58Chev
    Pro
    Etobicoke, ON

    I am liking this new 20700 battery.
    I have a few tools/torches that use the 18650’s and thought they were great. This new battery is revolutionizing the tool industry.
    So in Europe the Bosch batteries are called Ereraser but here in NA they went with Core. Anyone know the story behind the reasoning?

    “If you don’t pass on the knowledge you have to others, it Dies with you”
    — Glenn Botting

    #605178

    I am liking this new 20700 battery.
    I have a few tools/torches that use the 18650’s and thought they were great. This new battery is revolutionizing the tool industry.
    So in Europe the Bosch batteries are called Ereraser but here in NA they went with Core. Anyone know the story behind the reasoning?

    Good question, particularly in light of the thread that mentions that they are changing tool model numbers so that Europe and NA numbers are more in line with each other.

    My You Tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA5AretE3xPoVDV61AxUdUA

    #605187
    Profile photo of Brian
    brianpeters
    Pro
    Murray, KY

    I don’t know the reason for the name change but to me “Core” sounds better than “Eneracer”.

    #605197
    Profile photo of r-ice
    r-ice
    Pro
    Durham region, ON

    I don’t know the reason for the name change but to me “Core” sounds better than “Eneracer”.

    Yah i never knew what eneracer is but core sounds better. Its like the core of all your tools, without it, it won’t run lol.

    #605201

    I dont think any battery comes with lifetime warranty. And companies that claim.they have lifetime warranty they dont honor there warranty. Only on hand tools

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