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Kevin's Overhang/Cabana/Patio Build.

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  • #727122
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    I’ll be getting back on it soon. I have a concrete job I have to do first in the coming week or two once I finish up in the office for the season, then a few niggly little jobs, but after that, it’s build time on the Cabana/Overhang build.

    Nice to see you’ll be back to work on this.

    UPDATE

    Well, the ‘concrete job’ I needed to do first before getting back at this build involved me initially moving the 70 or so bags off my driveway where they sat covered all winter into my backyard where in doing so a few weeks ago I ended up re-injuring a left shoulder rotator cuff.

    It’s been a slow effort at trying to recuperate from that enough to undertake any real build work, but I’ve been diligently trying to do my range of motion and re-strenthening exercises and took a stab today at putting some effort into the overhang/cabana build.

    Basically, where I left off was I had most of the coarse steel slag sub-base for the natural stone we want to put in the one foot pit I dug out for it but it needed further proper spreading and some calcs of whether I in fact had enough of it and had to order more. Turns out I have what seems to be enough of the coarse underlay of the sub base.

    Mindful of my shoulder, I carefully shovelled and raked the slag and took periodic measurements with my Bosch rotary laser and receiver on the grade rod to get it overall close enough to where it should be all around.

    I used my 6 1/2 foot SOLA non magnetic level too, but it was really the Bosch 300 rotary level set up that was the real champion today with determining where I should move the steel slag agregate to. You can’t use any magnetic edged levels with this stuff or a gazillion bits of metal slag will be all over stuck to it in no time. One of my mistakes was to briefly inadvertently use a tape measure that has a magnetic tip. Sure enough, it was caked on the end with bits of granular slag and I had to be careful reeling it back in to make sure none of the slag got inside its inner casing. It would jam it up in quick order othewise.

    So after compacting it with my plate compactor I needed to maybe make the decision of whether I go and order the finer grade slag and the stones we want first and then build the structure or do I just lay some ply over most the slag area and build now and stone later. I ended up putting down the ply for now. I need that down for my Baker MetalTech scaffolding anyways and wifey will like being able to walk out there without having the slag directly underfoot.

    Nice to see your getting back at this project. Hopefully the weather will co operate for you. Look forward to the up dates.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #727131
    Doobie
    Moderator

    @doobie , it’s looking good Kevin
    Definitely different working with slag and a magnet level
    I’ve never used it before , do you have to do the same course of stone /stonedust and sand
    I know you mentioned two different types of slag , after that do you do that sand layer ,

    No sand. You have a base of what is essentially coarse slag. Then you top with finer grade slag, then the stones.

    One of the advantages of the steel slag over other sub base aggregates is that it not only compresses like stone and is less prone to water infiltration damage, but it also will not be a hone to ants. Yes, ANTS. They will not build nests in this stuff.

    Steel slag costs the same as what they charge for traditional ‘A-gravel’ that most use for the sub base main, but it is not widely available or is simply not ‘known’ to be a better alternative by most that do paver stone installations. I’ve got one place I know of outside east of Toronto that offers it. Everywhere else, you ask about it and they look at you like you’ve got two heads they’ve never heard of it.

    Ah okay , I remember that you will not have those pesky ants ,
    I just couldn’t remember if you need sand for the final top before the Stone , okay another question , will you use the polymer sand between the stone , I assume that the final slag must compact enough to not allow the polymer sand to fall to far down

    I should look into this over here , I wonder if I would get those looks also LoL

    There’s no reason the polymer would not be used as normal. The finer slag layer is actually less prone to washing out that using sand. I compacts tighter per the place I get it from who also does installs of pavers and such and sell the usual aggregates used by most contractors also.

    #727168

    I should look into this over here , I wonder if I would get those looks also LoL

    You can’t potentially expect to find steel slag everywhere in NA. It is a waste bi-product of the steel smelting process. Hamilton, which is an hour and half from where I live, has steel mills and is historically a hub of raw steel production. This stuff is the bi-product waste of that production, but you wouldn’t be transporting it more than hundreds of miles for sale. In fact, I think they probably give it away for free to places that will simply haul it away and use it.

    I saw something online researching it a long time ago that they use it for sub bases for highways in the states. Can’t recall for sure, but it would probably be within stones throw of a place like Pittsburgh where they are basically another ‘Steel Town’ in the states like Hamilton is up here.

    I actually googled it yesterday , I even asked my wife about it , she’s heard of it before , she worked for a service company for defasco , now she’s actually at Samuel Steel , I might try to use this next time I have to redo the paving stone around the pool area

    #727176
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I should look into this over here , I wonder if I would get those looks also LoL

    You can’t potentially expect to find steel slag everywhere in NA. It is a waste bi-product of the steel smelting process. Hamilton, which is an hour and half from where I live, has steel mills and is historically a hub of raw steel production. This stuff is the bi-product waste of that production, but you wouldn’t be transporting it more than hundreds of miles for sale. In fact, I think they probably give it away for free to places that will simply haul it away and use it.

    I saw something online researching it a long time ago that they use it for sub bases for highways in the states. Can’t recall for sure, but it would probably be within stones throw of a place like Pittsburgh where they are basically another ‘Steel Town’ in the states like Hamilton is up here.

    I actually googled it yesterday , I even asked my wife about it , she’s heard of it before , she worked for a service company for defasco , now she’s actually at Samuel Steel , I might try to use this next time I have to redo the paving stone around the pool area

    Have you found a place near you that offers it though? All the aggregate sellers in my area do not carry it except for one place. When you phone around, most have never even heard of it.

    #727188

    I should look into this over here , I wonder if I would get those looks also LoL

    You can’t potentially expect to find steel slag everywhere in NA. It is a waste bi-product of the steel smelting process. Hamilton, which is an hour and half from where I live, has steel mills and is historically a hub of raw steel production. This stuff is the bi-product waste of that production, but you wouldn’t be transporting it more than hundreds of miles for sale. In fact, I think they probably give it away for free to places that will simply haul it away and use it.

    I saw something online researching it a long time ago that they use it for sub bases for highways in the states. Can’t recall for sure, but it would probably be within stones throw of a place like Pittsburgh where they are basically another ‘Steel Town’ in the states like Hamilton is up here.

    I actually googled it yesterday , I even asked my wife about it , she’s heard of it before , she worked for a service company for defasco , now she’s actually at Samuel Steel , I might try to use this next time I have to redo the paving stone around the pool area

    Have you found a place near you that offers it though? All the aggregate sellers in my area do not carry it except for one place. When you phone around, most have never even heard of it.

    I haven’t called any yet , it’s not going to be until next year , or the next. So I St have time to check around. I’ll have to research it further , just to make sure not going to have any issues.

    #727193
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I should look into this over here , I wonder if I would get those looks also LoL

    You can’t potentially expect to find steel slag everywhere in NA. It is a waste bi-product of the steel smelting process. Hamilton, which is an hour and half from where I live, has steel mills and is historically a hub of raw steel production. This stuff is the bi-product waste of that production, but you wouldn’t be transporting it more than hundreds of miles for sale. In fact, I think they probably give it away for free to places that will simply haul it away and use it.

    I saw something online researching it a long time ago that they use it for sub bases for highways in the states. Can’t recall for sure, but it would probably be within stones throw of a place like Pittsburgh where they are basically another ‘Steel Town’ in the states like Hamilton is up here.

    I actually googled it yesterday , I even asked my wife about it , she’s heard of it before , she worked for a service company for defasco , now she’s actually at Samuel Steel , I might try to use this next time I have to redo the paving stone around the pool area

    Have you found a place near you that offers it though? All the aggregate sellers in my area do not carry it except for one place. When you phone around, most have never even heard of it.

    I haven’t called any yet , it’s not going to be until next year , or the next. So I St have time to check around. I’ll have to research it further , just to make sure not going to have any issues.

    Careful if you find comments about the slag showing rust over time. It’s a load of internet BS. There are many near me who have had their work done by the place that sells this steel slag stuff near me and also in speaking with them O’Flaherty’s who sells and uses it about that issue, they said they have never seen that and they’ve been using this type of underlay for almost two decades now.

    http://www.oflahertyslandscaping.com/

    They do not list on their scant website the price of the steel slag, but it’s the same as the A gravel they show they sell.

    You’ll note that they mention their paver work is ‘weed free’. This is because they use the slag in their own install work. This is a small local company that operates on what was basically a farm with their operation of selling landscaping stuff and whatnot on a corner lot on their property. They are very helpful with giving people explained instructions how best to approach their own landscaping efforts, but they shy away from actually promoting the steel slag on their website obviously. I think it’s because they don’t want competitor paver/landscapers to catch wind of using steel slag themselves. I think that’s what sets them apart from their competition and they know it.

    #727221
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    #727237
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    I don’t know what conventional roadway vibration rollers are, what is that?

    Is this it….

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_roller

    #727296
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    I don’t know what conventional roadway vibration rollers are, what is that?

    Is this it….

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_roller

    The top picture is the most common one you will see on road jobs. There is smooth drums rollers that is used by paving companies.
    There is other kind that the wheel are steel compactor type wheels. These do not vibrate.
    I have operated both kinds on road building and development of sub divisions.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #727302
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    I don’t know what conventional roadway vibration rollers are, what is that?

    Is this it….

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_roller

    The top picture is the most common one you will see on road jobs. There is smooth drums rollers that is used by paving companies.
    There is other kind that the wheel are steel compactor type wheels. These do not vibrate.
    I have operated both kinds on road building and development of sub divisions.

    Thank you Greg, kinda thought that’s what it was. Wasn’t sure as I didn’t know they vibrated as well as the rolled along.

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    Honestly have no clue. I would think they would.

    #727403
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    I don’t know what conventional roadway vibration rollers are, what is that?

    Is this it….

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_roller

    The top picture is the most common one you will see on road jobs. There is smooth drums rollers that is used by paving companies.
    There is other kind that the wheel are steel compactor type wheels. These do not vibrate.
    I have operated both kinds on road building and development of sub divisions.

    Thank you Greg, kinda thought that’s what it was. Wasn’t sure as I didn’t know they vibrated as well as the rolled along.

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    Honestly have no clue. I would think they would.

    No problem Kevin. Yeah they vibrate as roll along.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #727422
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    I don’t know what conventional roadway vibration rollers are, what is that?

    Is this it….

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_roller

    The top picture is the most common one you will see on road jobs. There is smooth drums rollers that is used by paving companies.
    There is other kind that the wheel are steel compactor type wheels. These do not vibrate.
    I have operated both kinds on road building and development of sub divisions.

    Thank you Greg, kinda thought that’s what it was. Wasn’t sure as I didn’t know they vibrated as well as the rolled along.

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    Honestly have no clue. I would think they would.

    No problem Kevin. Yeah they vibrate as roll along.

    How is that on the operator? Gotta imagine they build those machines with some kind of dampening design so as to not shake the hell out of the guy sittin on there all day.

    #727430
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    I don’t know what conventional roadway vibration rollers are, what is that?

    Is this it….

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_roller

    The top picture is the most common one you will see on road jobs. There is smooth drums rollers that is used by paving companies.
    There is other kind that the wheel are steel compactor type wheels. These do not vibrate.
    I have operated both kinds on road building and development of sub divisions.

    Thank you Greg, kinda thought that’s what it was. Wasn’t sure as I didn’t know they vibrated as well as the rolled along.

    Can you use the conventional roadway vibration rollers over steel slags?

    Honestly have no clue. I would think they would.

    No problem Kevin. Yeah they vibrate as roll along.

    How is that on the operator? Gotta imagine they build those machines with some kind of dampening design so as to not shake the hell out of the guy sittin on there all day.

    You don’t feel anything while your moving. But if you don’t turn off the vibrator before you stop. It will shake the heck out of you.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #727445
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    These vibration rollers don’t shake you up.

    Back in my college days I worked as a construction inspector for New York State DOT, and every summer I would go out on projects and do survey and inspection work. Before each truck dumps the asphalt you test the temperature and make sure it’s above the threshold, and when the rollers come you set a gauge on the blacktop to make sure they are vibrating at the correct frequency. In between trucks and rollers you drink coffee and eat donuts.😂😂😂

    The worst part of asphalt jobs is you can’t get that smell out of your nose. You can take three showers after work and you still smell that burning tar.

    #730317
    Doobie
    Moderator

    UPDATE to my build thread….

    As I mentioned almost two months ago elsewhere on the forum, I went and aggravated a left shoulder injury rotator cuff tear near the end of June and this project has been largely on hold from where I left off last year. Shoulder is still iffy for prolonged use overhead, but I have to resume getting back onto this project or I’m gonna lose my mind.

    I’ve been testing my shoulder on various other projects in overhead and strength motion in and around the house, and somewhat feel I can hopefully engage back into this project with it.

    It’s been quite depressing at times dealing with this physical impairment slowing me down in my efforts. There is just so much to do still in my backyard, I’m feeling overwhelmed at times. I feel I have to dig down real deep for fortitude to carry on. It’s been a mental struggle frankly!

    So lately I’ve been looking at this overhang cabana sauna project and how to carry on with the build, and now that I do some calcs with clearances and stuff, I’ve encountered two issues that are gonna necesitate some mods from what I was originally planning.

    I was gonna build the base of the cabana part similar to how I built my 10×20 feet shed on piers from a few years ago. In this case, for the cabana/sauna area of 12×8, two 6×6 PTs for the cabana stretched out onto the four 12in piers in place with a 2×6 framed joist flooring base with some kind of flooring insulation. But if I do that, I won’t end up with enough height for a standard 82 inch high door, and some interior ceiling of the cabana would have a sloped ceiling inside at the front end facing out into the backyard. Not good.

    I’m already doing a low slope roof dropping 2 feet over a 12 foot span, so this means to me I either have to fabricate a door myself that would only have a 6 foot or so head clearance for its side entrance that is under the rest of the overhang, but still have a sloped ceiling in the front part of the cabana, or simply design the base so that the whole base is half of what it eats up in height, and this is still not ideal, but I think this is the most workable way to build this thing.

    Essentially, the idea is that the base on saddles would sit based on the bottom of the saddles instead of the saddles simply accomodating the 6×6 beams that the base 6×6 floor frame would sit on top of. Again’ not ideal, but that it is obvious to me now, that this is a must. I’ve considered load points doing it this way, and I feel it’ll be OK. I think! I’m not an engineer, but I have a good sense for physics and such as it relates to construction as a quasi advanced DIYer who is not shy with building stuff.

    You know, I thought I had this all figured out last year when I planned this whole project when it was raw and unexcavated. I was obviously wrong with where certain elevations would end up. You live and learn. There’s another minor booboo I did in one of my pours that I realized also that needs to be dealt with in one of a few possible manners, but that one should be easy, just more work. I’ll discuss that mini error another time.

    Here’s the other fly in the ointment doing this change….the floor needs to insulated. This new base system makes that way more challenging, and I’m trying to avoid hiring somebody to come and blow in type 2 closed cell insulation.

    Still racking my brain on some aspects of this. But I just might be getting started tomorrow and just wing it as I go along for some aspects of the build. I’m pretty good at that sort of problem solving. I already have to deal with my 6x6s PTs I have for this having significamt twist for this in them now sitting there since last fall waiting for me, but I think I can overcome that issue. Life’s a ‘Beach’ sometimes.

    #730336

    Wow , to bad about all those little things. But mainly the shoulder , maybe just take care of yourself and start back up next year , you won’t be doing any good if you re injury that shoulder , or hurt yourself elsewhere by trying to favor that shoulder and strain something else.

    #730348
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Wow , to bad about all those little things. But mainly the shoulder , maybe just take care of yourself and start back up next year , you won’t be doing any good if you re injury that shoulder , or hurt yourself elsewhere by trying to favor that shoulder and strain something else.

    I know what you’re sayin’, but I’ve gotta try.

    My other concern in delaying is that our snitchy neighbors will complain to the town that our backyard looks like a stagnant construction zone. There are bylaws that exist for that and I know that they would just tell me to hire someone if I can’t undertake myself.

    #730355
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Wow that is really to bad you found some problems with your build. You have some time get some work done before snow flies.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #730361

    Wow , to bad about all those little things. But mainly the shoulder , maybe just take care of yourself and start back up next year , you won’t be doing any good if you re injury that shoulder , or hurt yourself elsewhere by trying to favor that shoulder and strain something else.

    I know what you’re sayin’, but I’ve gotta try.

    My other concern in delaying is that our snitchy neighbors will complain to the town that our backyard looks like a stagnant construction zone. There are bylaws that exist for that and I know that they would just tell me to hire someone if I can’t undertake myself.

    Oh well , I guess do what you can , and who cares what the neighbors say ,
    I remember when we bought our first home. Brand new had to do everything from gutter/landscape and driveway
    We had a call from the city , They said if we didn’t do our driveway they would issue us a fine. I told them if I couldn’t afford to get the driveway done good luck in trying to get money out of me for a fine lol
    I actually told them we just couldn’t afford it this year and they never bothered us

    #730363
    Doobie
    Moderator

    So today I decided to move from paper to an actual mock up of sorts to see where things would sit.

    The lower board in the first pic is sloping a foot every 6 feet and where you see the grade rod placed, is where a standard 82 inch high door would fit and only to the left of the grade rod. This is all with the aforementioned base being shallower/lower being factored in. Unless I were to cut down a door 4 to 6 inches, this just won’t work. The main entrance would be encroaching into the back area as is to be the sauna area as well.

    The second pic has another rafter placed but with a 1:12 drop. This works fine especially also allowing proper clearance for walking out from the overhang area out into the backyard also which the higher pitched roof would not have worked for either. The door into the cabana can now go more towards the center as I wanted it in the first place. Where you see the grade rod in that second pic is at 82 inches.

    Think I’m gonna now figure out how to build my floor base this afternoon.

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