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Interesting Article

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  • #438045
    jim_hunt17
    Pro
    Milwaukee, WI

    http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/what-happened-with-festool/

    I follow this guy on a somewhat normal basis and found this article to be interesting.
    Thoughts? Opinions?

    And a quick disclamer, I don’t mean this to be a bash on Festool or any other company. I just found it interesting when he talks about Festool being out of reach for a lot of the people that follow him.
    I figure this could lead to a very interesting conversation.

    Jim H.
    Milwaukee, WI

    #438048
    thedude306
    Moderator
    Foam Lake, SK

    I think he’s going to do well no matter what. He came up through the ranks so to speak and has a good following.

    I think the issue (if that’s the case) is that the festoolians follow blindly in a lot of cases. Festool makes some REALLY nice machines, but they are not making the best of everything. And not that you need the best of everything either but they have turned into a marketing machine in NA.

    What I always look for is good value for my $$$ And sometimes I have more money to pay for that value… Some days less, but I always try to find the best tool for the job, regardless of color.

    Brad T
    Self employed Pro since 2014!!

    #438050
    smallerstick
    Pro
    North Bay, ON

    Mark describes a business decision in his article and I agree with his having the freedom to make any business decision he wishes to make.
    His explanation that Festool doesn’t have the market cornered on the best tools is valid. Opinions expressed in this forum support that.
    I agree with him that his shop should offer a more varied selection of tools. His tool selection should more closely resemble the typical selection found in his viewers shops.

    I agree with Brad that Mark will continue to do well. He is well respected and offers sound advice.

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can’t Be The Pro… Be The Poster you’d want to read.

    #438067

    I had read this earlier. I think that Mark is doing what he needs to do. This is not a new concept — after all Norm started it with Delta and Porter-Cable sponsorships and everything on NYW was from these brands. No tool company makes the best of all tools (I agree with Brad) and it is good to have choices. For me it has become all about dust collection – if a tool does not have good DC, then I am less interested in using it. Other things also come into play. I find it interesting that he is getting rid of the drills. For me I actually think that the drills are one of Festool’s best offerings with the interchangeable chucks.

    Orange County, CA

    #438207
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    Huh…I own zero Festools, but I still find it very odd that Marc would voluntarily “downgrade”. I’d personally never buy a PC (anything) after dumping a Festool equivalent. Whether Festool is the best or not in a given tool category…I’m convinced that PC doesn’t compete.

    I can appreciate him wanting to use more accessible tools because he has previously been fully stocked with super expensive stuff. His choices are apparently not in line with what I personally consider to be of a high quality though.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #438272

    This may be the smartest thing he has done. May now reach out to the many that find tools of that price a dream. And even if he uses them, the fact that he is probably one of the first with the experience and following to make a statement like this may be pure genius

    #438274
    thedude306
    Moderator
    Foam Lake, SK

    I am actually looking forward to his take on some of the other tools after using all the festool items. I think we might be surprised at how many things he goes back too and how many other tools do a comparable job at a lower price point.

    Brad T
    Self employed Pro since 2014!!

    #438276

    I think it was an honest move by him. The core tools he chose to keep are the ones I feel are worth their money. Two changes I would make would be keep the Kapex and ditch the MFT.

    I used to be all Dewalt…almost blindly. I now look for the best tool to do the job first and then the brand second. There are a lot of great tools out there by different manufacturers.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #438278
    CrpntrFeak
    Pro
    Globe, AZ

    I also saw this earlier on my FB feed.

    He is a smart guy and has been in business for a while. Sounds like he has a level head about it too.

    I don’t get why he is doing it but more power to him. He has spent the money on the tools so why not keep them is my question?

    As far as Festool being the best at everything, I don’t see any one brand being the best at everything. The only Festool I have is my Kapex. I don’t feel it is worth $1400 but I do feel it is the best saw out there. So that is why I bought it. I have achieved the same results on other machines but they were not as easy to use and they required some playing around with to achieve those results.

    #438281
    jzmtl
    Pro
    Montreal, QC

    Huh…I own zero Festools, but I still find it very odd that Marc would voluntarily “downgrade”. I’d personally never buy a PC (anything) after dumping a Festool equivalent. Whether Festool is the best or not in a given tool category…I’m convinced that PC doesn’t compete.

    I can appreciate him wanting to use more accessible tools because he has previously been fully stocked with super expensive stuff. His choices are apparently not in line with what I personally consider to be of a high quality though.

    He is doing a show not just making stuff in his workshop, so his point about using “accessible tool” for the audience is valid. Between one using super expensive stuff that I will never buy, and another using regular stuff you find in stores, I’m much more likely to watch the latter.

    #438293

    Huh…I own zero Festools, but I still find it very odd that Marc would voluntarily “downgrade”. I’d personally never buy a PC (anything) after dumping a Festool equivalent. Whether Festool is the best or not in a given tool category…I’m convinced that PC doesn’t compete.

    I can appreciate him wanting to use more accessible tools because he has previously been fully stocked with super expensive stuff. His choices are apparently not in line with what I personally consider to be of a high quality though.

    He is doing a show not just making stuff in his workshop, so his point about using “accessible tool” for the audience is valid. Between one using super expensive stuff that I will never buy, and another using regular stuff you find in stores, I’m much more likely to watch the latter.

    That was the point I was trying to make. His following should increase. Many good tools out there, just because someone can’t afford a name doesn’t diminish his or her skills, or what other tools out there.

    #438329
    yellaD
    Pro

    The jist of his article is why I love this site. It’s real world talk and opinions and I’ve completely rethought what’s the best and best value.

    #438344
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    Huh…I own zero Festools, but I still find it very odd that Marc would voluntarily “downgrade”. I’d personally never buy a PC (anything) after dumping a Festool equivalent. Whether Festool is the best or not in a given tool category…I’m convinced that PC doesn’t compete.

    I can appreciate him wanting to use more accessible tools because he has previously been fully stocked with super expensive stuff. His choices are apparently not in line with what I personally consider to be of a high quality though.

    He is doing a show not just making stuff in his workshop, so his point about using “accessible tool” for the audience is valid. Between one using super expensive stuff that I will never buy, and another using regular stuff you find in stores, I’m much more likely to watch the latter.

    That was the point I was trying to make. His following should increase. Many good tools out there, just because someone can’t afford a name doesn’t diminish his or her skills, or what other tools out there.

    You make good points. I just can’t see why he would toss out perfectly good high quality tools for something that is likely inferior. If he was buying something new…then it makes sense to shop around and buy the best tool for the job rather than simply accept the Festool because of a sponsorship.

    This decision won’t change my opinion of Marc. I think he’s a talented guy and that his shows are entertaining…but something seems a little puzzling about this to me.

    He is doing a show not just making stuff in his workshop,

    How is this different from before? I though he always had a “show.”

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #438360
    yellaD
    Pro

    I just saw this on a classified site. Just thought it was interesting because Marc loves the Kapex, as do most.

    “Before I start let me say the kapex is in excellent condition and is exactly like factory new as intended. I am selling it because it is by far the worst miter saw I have ever owned. Don’t get me wrong festool has a great reputation of having excellent tools. This saw is just horrible, it shoots small off cuts everywhere. It is fixable if you buy a 3rd party insert but at $1850 plus tax it should be perfect. The second issue is dust collection, excellent if you have the vacuum hooked up to it. If you use it without the vacuum dust goes everywhere. Imagine if you are cutting outside, you have to use the vacuum otherwise you will have dust thrown in your face. Think how stupid that looks when you are at a client’s home and you have the vacuum hooked up outside. Plus the fact you are forced to carry the vacuum all the time. The last issue is regarding the power, it seems very underpowered cutting 4/4 hardwood it just seems to bog down. The Bosch and Dewalt saws seems to have more power than this. Come to think of it I think you just slap a bigger dust boot on the Bosch you will achieve nearly the same dust collection when attached to a vacuum. Its documented somewhere in the FOG. I also had issues with the laser and alignment, I had the unit replaced with a brand new unit. Everyone in the shop avoids this saw, even the handle is awkward.

    Anyways I know there are a lot of festool fanatics which will buy anything festool sells so that’s why I am confident telling you this and asking next to full price. The saw is 10 months old and I have the receipt.”

    #438399
    r-ice
    Pro
    Durham region, ON

    I think it is great he has rethought the format for his show. I think he would get more viewers if he can show that hey I can make do with comparable quality equipment, infact i’d like to see him with a few more ryobi’s and ridgids as well. Just to show you don’t always need festool, bosch, makita.

    #438515
    CrpntrFeak
    Pro
    Globe, AZ

    I just saw this on a classified site. Just thought it was interesting because Marc loves the Kapex, as do most.

    “Before I start let me say the kapex is in excellent condition and is exactly like factory new as intended. I am selling it because it is by far the worst miter saw I have ever owned. Don’t get me wrong festool has a great reputation of having excellent tools. This saw is just horrible, it shoots small off cuts everywhere. It is fixable if you buy a 3rd party insert but at $1850 plus tax it should be perfect. The second issue is dust collection, excellent if you have the vacuum hooked up to it. If you use it without the vacuum dust goes everywhere. Imagine if you are cutting outside, you have to use the vacuum otherwise you will have dust thrown in your face. Think how stupid that looks when you are at a client’s home and you have the vacuum hooked up outside. Plus the fact you are forced to carry the vacuum all the time. The last issue is regarding the power, it seems very underpowered cutting 4/4 hardwood it just seems to bog down. The Bosch and Dewalt saws seems to have more power than this. Come to think of it I think you just slap a bigger dust boot on the Bosch you will achieve nearly the same dust collection when attached to a vacuum. Its documented somewhere in the FOG. I also had issues with the laser and alignment, I had the unit replaced with a brand new unit. Everyone in the shop avoids this saw, even the handle is awkward.

    Anyways I know there are a lot of festool fanatics which will buy anything festool sells so that’s why I am confident telling you this and asking next to full price. The saw is 10 months old and I have the receipt.”

    That was quoting Marc?

    I am not saying they are not allowed to have an opinion, but when it comes to hooking up a vac, I always do. A mess is a mess. Whether it is inside OR outside. What I think looks stupid is a pile of saw dust left on someones lawn, driveway, sidewalk, deck, patio, etc, etc. If I look stupid to a customer doing that, then they have not a clue. I don’t like cleaning up messes. So I prefer to start clean up as it is happening. Yes, this is a big reason why I own the Kapex and why I would like to add more Festool tools to my collection.

    #438525

    Huh…I own zero Festools, but I still find it very odd that Marc would voluntarily “downgrade”. I’d personally never buy a PC (anything) after dumping a Festool equivalent. Whether Festool is the best or not in a given tool category…I’m convinced that PC doesn’t compete.

    I can appreciate him wanting to use more accessible tools because he has previously been fully stocked with super expensive stuff. His choices are apparently not in line with what I personally consider to be of a high quality though.

    He is doing a show not just making stuff in his workshop, so his point about using “accessible tool” for the audience is valid. Between one using super expensive stuff that I will never buy, and another using regular stuff you find in stores, I’m much more likely to watch the latter.

    That was the point I was trying to make. His following should increase. Many good tools out there, just because someone can’t afford a name doesn’t diminish his or her skills, or what other tools out there.

    Great point Ed,
    I don’t have any Festool, I’m sure they are great tools, just not in my budget.

    #438528
    58Chev
    Pro
    Etobicoke, ON

    That was the point I was trying to make. His following should increase. Many good tools out there, just because someone can’t afford a name doesn’t diminish his or her skills, or what other tools out there.

    Great point Ed,
    I don’t have any Festool, I’m sure they are great tools, just not in my budget.

    Yes, well put Ed.

    I am another with no Festool in my arsenal of tools but I do try to buy the best I can afford at the time the tools in needed. If out of my budget, I’ll just rent it for the time needed.

    “If you don’t pass on the knowledge you have to others, it Dies with you”
    — Glenn Botting

    #438533
    thedude306
    Moderator
    Foam Lake, SK

    You make good points. I just can’t see why he would toss out perfectly good high quality tools for something that is likely inferior.

    I think that’s what he is going to find out… If they are actually inferior or it’s just different.

    I think festool users get caught up in the accessories and the “system” and some times put up with a less then superior tool to do so.

    I am hoping it will be a good comparison from someone that can be honest about the differences. He still might go back to all festool if that’s what he finds works the best.

    Brad T
    Self employed Pro since 2014!!

    #438537
    Doobie
    Moderator

    While he tries to sound like he doesn’t have il feelings, I think Marc does and hence his satements say just as much.

    I like my Festool stuff, but over time I’ve come to realize they don’t make the best of everything or simply their prices don’t warrant another brand for me at times.

    One example is their Syslite. I do like mine, but it cost way too much for what it is. Grossly overpriced.

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