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How do you cope and stick?

This topic contains 57 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  MTRoads 2 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 41 through 58 (of 58 total)
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  • #530175

    woodman_412
    Moderator

    You guys that still make your own doors, do you mill up your lumber from rough sawn or buy it dressed? I always found that jointing and planing everything added a lot of time to the door making process but gave me nice accurate stock to work with. I think my lack of industrial machines like a big wide belt sander and big thickness planer definitely slows down my door making process.

    Dan

    danpattison.com

    #530488

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    There are a ton of places to order doors and drawer boxes in iowa and Missouri. We tried it for a while but decided to go back to making our own. Ended up costing more for us but we would make sure that the grain on the styles, rails and panels ran all the way through floor to ceiling and wall to wall. It was way to time consuming to eplain how to do it to the guys making the doors.

    I would like to know some of your guys process in coping and sticking. I have done a ton over the years but I’m always looking for a trick if I can. Due to aligning the grain we always sticked (usually needed a few hundred feet for each job) cut all the parts and numbered them then coped. Once all that was ready we set panel buddies then made the panels. Then rolling assembly till all were done. A few trips through the wide belt sander to 220. Then squaring by any men’s nessesary. Usually jointed one side then square cut one end on the Excalibur sliding table saw. Finished the other 2 sides on the “big” table saw. Then hand sanding for what seemed like for ever and edge profile if any.

    How about you?

    Adam,
    In the cabinet shop I worked at for a few years we always coped first. I’m sure there are pro’s and con’s to doing either way. Panels were typically done as soon as we had time as there was always sanding to be done on them.
    One end was squared when in the clamps with a framing square. After the glue dried – a few passes through the drum sander to flush up all the stile/rail joints, and then of course the obligatory final sanding that we all enjoy so much.
    (I am way too familiar with the sanding part, having spent many a 10 hour shift doing nothing but sanding doors when I worked at the custom door shop).

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #530496

    PerfectStud
    Pro
    Coralville, IA

    Oh sanding. It wasn’t as much of a pain after we switched to air sanders. We squared in clamps also but cheated a bit by adding a 1/16″ to all sides so we had a little wiggle room. We usually started panels from face frame scraps.

    I miss having my giant door table. 6’×16′ with a rolling chop saw cabinet on the end with 16 drawers for my personal tools and dodads. Man that was nice. Some day I’ll build another one.

    I’ll be helping a friend re roof part of his house this weekend not far from the shop I’ll see if I can get some pics of the setup.

    #530501

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    You guys that still make your own doors, do you mill up your lumber from rough sawn or buy it dressed? I always found that jointing and planing everything added a lot of time to the door making process but gave me nice accurate stock to work with. I think my lack of industrial machines like a big wide belt sander and big thickness planer definitely slows down my door making process.

    We always used rough stock. Straight-line one edge and cut about 1/16″ over so the stock could be run through the planer to clean up any saw blade marks on either side. (Door stock never saw the jointer).
    Sander was a 25″ drum sander but a wide belt like they had at the door shop I worked at before the cabinet shop would have been very nice.

    This is the larger of the 3 wide-belts used at the custom door shop. It is a triple belt sander. Was typically loaded with 80-150-180 so sanding was a one pass process – there is a reason they are called ‘time-savers’. 🙂

    Attachments:

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #530508

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Oh sanding. It wasn’t as much of a pain after we switched to air sanders. We squared in clamps also but cheated a bit by adding a 1/16″ to all sides so we had a little wiggle room. We usually started panels from face frame scraps.

    I miss having my giant door table. 6’×16′ with a rolling chop saw cabinet on the end with 16 drawers for my personal tools and dodads. Man that was nice. Some day I’ll build another one.

    I’ll be helping a friend re roof part of his house this weekend not far from the shop I’ll see if I can get some pics of the setup.

    I fully agree on air sanders being the way to go on large jobs. I have 4 electric ROS’s and none of them perform as well as a pneumatic ROS IMHO.
    Would like to see that setup, 6′ wide though huh? Short as I am I’d have to climb up on a table that wide to get to parts on the other side. 🙂

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #530513

    After the glue dried – a few passes through the drum sander to flush up all the stile/rail joints, and then of course the obligatory final sanding that we all enjoy so much.
    (I am way too familiar with the sanding part

    How true, how true. The sanding makes the work look finished but it sure takes a lot of time to finish (pun intended). Like everyone I wish there was an easier way to get there.

    #530515

    PerfectStud
    Pro
    Coralville, IA

    Had to be that big to fit all the parts for a full house package. All the work tables were accessible from all sides. We also gang built everything. Customer would get a bit more space and we used less material. Down side though was that a locker or an island could get big. The longest single base cabinet I built was 12′ long for a car dealer. We were known for crazy islands and some could not be built without a table that big. We had special carts for delivering the islands a few times we had to take the CTL with pallet forks to even move the monsters.

    Also we had an adjustable height table that was awesome for doing detail work on furnature or custom hoods. One of the guys made it out of a plywood top and a motorcycle lift. Could adjust the table top from the floor to 4ft.

    #530519

    PerfectStud
    Pro
    Coralville, IA

    We hired a kid who had some developmental issues that loved wood working to do most of the sanding. I think he’s been there for 6-7 years now. He has a full shop at home and is very safe with the equipment he’s aloud to use at the shop. Just about his whole pay check goes into all the crazy stuff he builds at home. We used to send scrap home with him so he had materials. We would also give him a hand if he was having a hard time with a project. I wouldn’t dought if every inch of wall at his house was covered in cabinets:) it was surprising how much faster we were after he started. There were only 4-5 of us in the shop and I was the only one that was full time in the shop as the others did design or installs too.

    #530525

    Also we had an adjustable height table that was awesome for doing detail work on furnature or custom hoods. One of the guys made it out of a plywood top and a motorcycle lift. Could adjust the table top from the floor to 4ft.

    There have been so many times I wished for an adjustable height table as a workstation for projects to get better access to the area being worked on. My back would vote for one too! 🙂

    #530537

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Also we had an adjustable height table that was awesome for doing detail work on furnature or custom hoods. One of the guys made it out of a plywood top and a motorcycle lift. Could adjust the table top from the floor to 4ft.

    There have been so many times I wished for an adjustable height table as a workstation for projects to get better access to the area being worked on. My back would vote for one too! 🙂

    A motorcycle lift setup with a platform top/worktable could be useful for so darn many things….. another shop project that has been put off for far too long.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #530610

    woodman_412
    Moderator

    You guys that still make your own doors, do you mill up your lumber from rough sawn or buy it dressed? I always found that jointing and planing everything added a lot of time to the door making process but gave me nice accurate stock to work with. I think my lack of industrial machines like a big wide belt sander and big thickness planer definitely slows down my door making process.

    We always used rough stock. Straight-line one edge and cut about 1/16″ over so the stock could be run through the planer to clean up any saw blade marks on either side. (Door stock never saw the jointer).
    Sander was a 25″ drum sander but a wide belt like they had at the door shop I worked at before the cabinet shop would have been very nice.

    This is the larger of the 3 wide-belts used at the custom door shop. It is a triple belt sander. Was typically loaded with 80-150-180 so sanding was a one pass process – there is a reason they are called ‘time-savers’. 🙂

    That triple belt sander sounds like a beauty. I think that’s the reason that I can buy the doors cheaper than I can make them is I just don’t have the big equipment that saves so much time. Really the only time it would make sense cost wise for me to make doors now is if I was in a super big rush for them or was something so custom that I couldn’t order it.

    I started using the Freud Premiere adjustable bit set a few years ago and really liked it. The groove is fully adjustable for undersized plywood panels which I found was a huge help.

    http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-760

    Dan

    danpattison.com

    #530905

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Dan,
    I use a fairly similar setup using these:
    http://www.freudtools.com/index.php//search?search=99-036&submit=%EF%80%82

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #530907

    woodman_412
    Moderator

    Dan,
    I use a fairly similar setup using these:
    http://www.freudtools.com/index.php//search?search=99-036&submit=%EF%80%82

    I have that set as well Stan for doing shaker style doors. Great set. I really like the Freud adjustable sets in general.

    Dan

    danpattison.com

    #531008

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Dan,
    I use a fairly similar setup using these:
    http://www.freudtools.com/index.php//search?search=99-036&submit=%EF%80%82

    I have that set as well Stan for doing shaker style doors. Great set. I really like the Freud adjustable sets in general.

    After my first set of adjustable bits – that’s all I use now. Just makes everything all that much easier. 🙂

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #531043

    smallerstick
    Pro
    North Bay, ON

    Dan,
    I use a fairly similar setup using these:
    http://www.freudtools.com/index.php//search?search=99-036&submit=%EF%80%82

    I have that set as well Stan for doing shaker style doors. Great set. I really like the Freud adjustable sets in general.

    After my first set of adjustable bits – that’s all I use now. Just makes everything all that much easier. 🙂

    Thanks for the links, Stan and Dan. I wasn’t aware of adjustable bits like these before. Sure makes sense with the variety of plywood thicknesses in the marketplace.

    There are only two ways to do things; the right way and again.

    #531045

    woodman_412
    Moderator

    Dan,
    I use a fairly similar setup using these:
    http://www.freudtools.com/index.php//search?search=99-036&submit=%EF%80%82

    I have that set as well Stan for doing shaker style doors. Great set. I really like the Freud adjustable sets in general.

    After my first set of adjustable bits – that’s all I use now. Just makes everything all that much easier. 🙂

    Thanks for the links, Stan and Dan. I wasn’t aware of adjustable bits like these before. Sure makes sense with the variety of plywood thicknesses in the marketplace.

    I got really frustrated working with non adjustable sets before since it’s very hard to find plywood that is a full 1/4″ or even close to it. It’s fine if you’re making raised panel doors and you can make the lip on your panels just the right thickness but for flat panel doors you pretty much need the adjustable to get plywood panels to fit just right. Here’s some doors that I made a few years ago with the Freud set for a kitchen refacing job I did.

    Dan

    danpattison.com

    #531342

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Very nice looking job on that refacing Dan. (Not a favorite job of mine – would rather build an entire new kitchen rather than do a reface.)

    Nice to be able to dial to the stock as mentioned – nothing worse than a cabinet door panel that doesn’t fit right and rattles.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #580685

    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Dan,
    What do you use for spacers for the panels? The round space balls or something else?

    I use 1/4″ pieces of neoprene that are about 1″ long, seems to give a bit more surface area for the panel to rest against than the round spacers.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

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