dcsimg

Hot Water heater location

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 26 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #760471
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Will be replacing the hot water heater at the new property before long to convert from electric to propane.

    While doing that I am wondering if it would be better to locate the heater closer to the hot water usage points than where it is currently located.

    At this time, the heater is in the basement on the back side of the house. The closest hot water usage is the clothes washer that is a couple feet away. The washer will eventually be moved to the main floor on the right side of the house layout when the extension is added.

    Seems that a majority of the hot water ends up traveling an excessive distance through the lines before available at the taps.

    So my question is, when the hot water heater is replaced – should it be located next to the furnace in the basement to be closer to both the incoming Propane line and the locations of the hot water needs?

    Or with the washer being relocated eventually to the main floor, would it be best to move the hot water heater to a location in the basement under the existing Master Bath area?

    Thoughts?

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    Attachments:
    #760476
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    A gas WH has to be vented, so your biggest hurdle might be running a vent from wherever the WH will be to the roof. This has to be done since you have an electric one now. Does it use 120v electric? Does it require a dedicated circuit? Your current electric WH is most likely 240v.

    #760477
    JimDaddyO
    Pro
    Wawa, ON

    Why do you need a hot water heater? Hot water doesn’t need heating…lol…sorry, spirit of George Carlin got me.

    My You Tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA5AretE3xPoVDV61AxUdUA

    I don't do a fast job. I don't do a slow job. I do a half fast job.

    #760479

    Will be replacing the hot water heater at the new property before long to convert from electric to propane.

    While doing that I am wondering if it would be better to locate the heater closer to the hot water usage points than where it is currently located.

    At this time, the heater is in the basement on the back side of the house. The closest hot water usage is the clothes washer that is a couple feet away. The washer will eventually be moved to the main floor on the right side of the house layout when the extension is added.

    Seems that a majority of the hot water ends up traveling an excessive distance through the lines before available at the taps.

    So my question is, when the hot water heater is replaced – should it be located next to the furnace in the basement to be closer to both the incoming Propane line and the locations of the hot water needs?

    Or with the washer being relocated eventually to the main floor, would it be best to move the hot water heater to a location in the basement under the existing Master Bath area?

    Thoughts?

    Well , it could be costly for the initial install , Don’t forget , they will have to get an exhaust for the heater , plus run the propane line , personally I think the most costly expense will be exhausting to the outside , definitely depends on local regulations and requirements , ex near window and door plus other obstacles like possible outside electrical 🤷‍♂️ should be fairly straightforward , just have to meet certain codes.
    Looking forward to hearing about this , I can tell you , from past experiences. You will definitely have faster hot water , plus depends , most propane or natural gas HWT use 40 gallons compared to 60 electric 🤷‍♂️ that’s here , but like I said , definitely depends on local regulations and requirements

    #760497
    Doobie
    Moderator

    The other consideration that many don’t even think about nor do some contractors hired for such jobs involving either the hot water heater and/or the washing machine relocation to other parts of the house especially for placing on upper floors, is what happens if there is a leak? And not a mini-leak, but a bursting type leak!

    One of the reasons, aside from being close to where the utility supply lines are coming into a typical house as to why they are located in the basement often beside the furnace also, is that there is typically a floor drain nearby that area.

    Hot water tanks do burst on occasion. Washing machines also can have water beyond smallish issues that cause flooding. As long as you have what is a properly drained contained shouldered waterproof pan for either in the event of such, you may be wise to keep it in the basement.

    Having metal braided lines and copper running does not mitigate these risks.

    #760498
    Sprokitz
    Pro
    Eastern shore of, Pa

    Have to agree that exhaust is a concern. As far as being close to the washer location… we rarely use hot water in our washer, most of todays detergents work as good using cold as they do using hot. You might want to consider an on demand HWH. It only fires up when water is called for and only heats that water, which saves the cost of maintaining tank temperature

    #760507
    Doobie
    Moderator

    we rarely use hot water in our washer, most of todays detergents work as good using cold as they do using hot.

    They’ve never ‘advertised’ this, but all laundry detergents since the 70’s or so work no less effective in cold or hot water. This nonsense with paying a premium for ‘Cold Water’ tech detergent is just a marketing ploy.

    I know this from when I took marketing courses in the 80’s and a fellow from Proctor & Gamble shared that unique at the time tidbit with us that our professor invited to speak to us.

    Another one I recall him saying was that those disposable razor blades….well, they cut excellent for the first 4-6 shaves, then after, you can easily get up to 20 decent shaves out of them typically. At the time these were the DUO two blades of disposable razors.

    He also said that all dry pet foods are just made of grains and only flavoured with animal fats but presented as such as they were real meat kibbles.

    Bar Soap is designed to emit a slightish grey hue when washing/rinsing to show that using it has cleaned what are otherwise clean hands to promote more use.

    Neat stuff eh! And that’s stuff I recall from the 80’s taking those courses when he came and spoke to our class. Very enlightening.

    #760516
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Why do you need a hot water heater? Hot water doesn’t need heating…lol…sorry, spirit of George Carlin got me.

    heh, thanks @JimDaddyO
    A bit of humor is always appreciated. 🙂

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760517
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Thanks for all the information.
    Looks like I need to wait until we get into the place so I can see how/where the propane furnace is vented – then find out how close the 2 vents can be to each other if that is an issue.
    Good information on the clothes washer. The relocation will be in the remodeled garage, so adding appropriate drainage should not be an issue.

    Fortunately, nothing has to be done immediately. I am just laying out the house in Architectural Interior Designer and figured I would try to find out as much as possible relating to relocating the hot water heater so I would know how future space will be used. Which led to the questions on conversion from electric to propane.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760519
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Have to agree that exhaust is a concern. As far as being close to the washer location… we rarely use hot water in our washer, most of todays detergents work as good using cold as they do using hot. You might want to consider an on demand HWH. It only fires up when water is called for and only heats that water, which saves the cost of maintaining tank temperature

    I have not looked at the details of the on demand hot water heaters – but I can only imagine that when that thing kicks on the electric meter spins like a top at full speed.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760524
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I have not looked at the details of the on demand hot water heaters – but I can only imagine that when that thing kicks on the electric meter spins like a top at full speed.

    Electric tankless heaters eats a lot of juice, not to mention they require a dedicated minimum 60A circuit and you have to calculate the incoming water temperature and desired output water temperature to derive the “rise” you need to make sure you size the heater correctly on you will get warm showers. In addition the electric wiring cost can be significant for an electric tankless. If you go tankless it’s best to consider a gas tankless, which of course you have to vent outside like a gas tanked heater.

    Down here in hurricane country a tanked heater has one additional benefit which is when the power does go out you have 1-2 hot showers left. A tankless means you have only cold showers.

    #760525
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    @Miamicuse, yeah – from the sounds of things I don’t think I will be interested in a tankless setup. Just the idea of a 60 Amp circuit gives me visions of the power meter spinning out of control.

    Ideally and outdoor boiler would be the preferred method of producing heat and hot water – but with this place that will have to wait a few years.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760526
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I see that you are in Montana, so that kind of counts against you in so far as tankless. Where I am in Florida, the incoming water is like 75 degrees in the winter, and for me to heat it to say 105 degrees, it is only a rise of 30 degrees, and being in the sunshine state, I can go solar to offset part of the electrical cost. I think your incoming water is lower then 75 even in the summer so the rise demand is high. Tankless in Florida cost less to operate then tankless in Montana, whether gas or electric.

    #760529
    Sprokitz
    Pro
    Eastern shore of, Pa

    but I can only imagine that when that thing kicks on the electric meter spins like a top at full speed.

    I was talking gas not electric

    #760530
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    but I can only imagine that when that thing kicks on the electric meter spins like a top at full speed.

    I was talking gas not electric

    ahhh, I think I got your response and Miamicus’s response mixed up.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760534
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Will be replacing the hot water heater at the new property before long to convert from electric to propane.

    While doing that I am wondering if it would be better to locate the heater closer to the hot water usage points than where it is currently located.

    At this time, the heater is in the basement on the back side of the house. The closest hot water usage is the clothes washer that is a couple feet away. The washer will eventually be moved to the main floor on the right side of the house layout when the extension is added.

    Seems that a majority of the hot water ends up traveling an excessive distance through the lines before available at the taps.

    So my question is, when the hot water heater is replaced – should it be located next to the furnace in the basement to be closer to both the incoming Propane line and the locations of the hot water needs?

    Or with the washer being relocated eventually to the main floor, would it be best to move the hot water heater to a location in the basement under the existing Master Bath area?

    Thoughts?

    From what I can tell from your drawing it looks like really there is much difference in both locations for the hot water heater.
    I would think your biggest is not hot water. It would be the venting and gas line hook up for the new gas hot water heater. I would think the location where the old water heater my be the best choice as is near exterior wall.

    This past spring I thought about installing a new gas stove for heating. It would sit in the same spot as old wood burning stove. The cost to run a gas line roughly 15 feet was $200.00 and the total install was $1000.00. I decided not go this route with price of the stove it was as much as new gas furnace.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #760541

    I see that you are in Montana, so that kind of counts against you in so far as tankless. Where I am in Florida, the incoming water is like 75 degrees in the winter, and for me to heat it to say 105 degrees, it is only a ride of 30 degrees, and begin in the sunshine state, I can go solar to offset part of the electrical cost. I think your incoming water is lower then 75 even in the summer so the rise demand is high. Tankless in Florida cost less to operate then tankless in Montana.

    That’s a good point , location definitely makes a difference.

    #760554
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    I see that you are in Montana, so that kind of counts against you in so far as tankless. Where I am in Florida, the incoming water is like 75 degrees in the winter, and for me to heat it to say 105 degrees, it is only a rise of 30 degrees, and being in the sunshine state, I can go solar to offset part of the electrical cost. I think your incoming water is lower then 75 even in the summer so the rise demand is high. Tankless in Florida cost less to operate then tankless in Montana, whether gas or electric.

    Yeah, our water comes from about 165 feet down. Won’t have a chance to check the water temp – but I do believe it will be significantly below 75 degrees.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760555
    MTRoads
    Pro
    Near Glacier National Park, MT

    Went out to look at the house today. Putting a propane water heater next to the propane forced air furnace would also put the vent quite close.
    Should be able to get inside the house in a few weeks to find out more about the existing venting route.

    Stan
    From the Northwest corner of Montana.

    #760766
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I looked into tankless a few times and spoke to plumbers I know about this issue over the years in anticipation of when we were to change our water heater which we did change about 3-4 years ago.

    In a nutshell, tankless became very popular in Europe as there are space considerations there more often than there are here it seems. Significant apartment dwellers in some places for the most part being the reason not on central building hot water systems as is uncommon over here except maybe in newer builds. Water conservation was another issue IIRC, although I can’t recall how that correlated.

    They are very finicky to install correctly. Go read the Ridgid Plumbing forum (if it still exists) like I did a decade ago to hear from pros on that as well. You really want somebody who truly knows what they are doing installing one which can be hit & miss over here in NA.

    Miamicuse’s remarks about power failures resulting in zero hot water may also be an occasional nuissance you might want to consider.

    They wear out faster than decent tank units.

    The extolled energy savings posted by tankless manufacturers are exaggerated. I did the math on that myself as well never mind plumbers telling me the same.

    Some of the vented gas tanked units are so highly efficient nowadays they offer hot water constantly although in continuous demand they tend to not offer as hot of a water as they are when fresh with the hot water demand. We have one of those. You just tweak the hot water tap higher once the heat drops and your good. After such things as 3 showers in a row, you will still get sufficiently hot water to do whatever you are doing just turning up the hot flow.

    Just some of my thoughts I recall on this whole issue which I visited many times in the last two decades.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 26 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
© Robert Bosch Tool Corporation 2014, all rights reserved.
queries. 0.296 seconds