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Holy Smokes! Makita released a new 12" LXTx2 DBSCMS

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  • #721402
    CB
    Spectator

    A spider web matrix of cords and air hoses snaking around getting tangled underfoot every which way… versus a more centralized location nearer to the power distribution box for charging batteries.

    Some here might remember the same argument levied against cordless drills 30 years ago. No one was going to give up their Magnum Hole Shooters. (And for good reason, as back then, the available battery chemistries were not as good as they are today). Nowadays, no one uses a corded drill, as the inconvenience of cord wrangling is inefficient.

    I spend a fair amount of time cord wrangling, and evaluating the available power on site for circuit capacity, and the loads shared by the workers as well as the occupants of a site. Every cordless tool deployment removes more of that burden. Just BYOB. More of them solves any power issues.

    #721445
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    Nowadays, no one uses a corded drill, as the inconvenience of cord wrangling is inefficient.

    We still use corded drills. The corded ½” drill has not been replaced by batteries yet. Not for plumbers or carpenters. Oh and the corded Skil Saw still has it’s place too.

    #721459
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    We still use corded drills. The corded ½” drill has not been replaced by batteries yet. Not for plumbers or carpenters.

    Probably true especially if you have a bunch of holes to drill.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #721473
    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Moderator
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    Yes, the cord has it’s place. I am impressed with the abilities of the dual battery right angle drills that have come out and the dual battery circular saws. Yet, I still see most using a cord for those.

    The battery investment to go to all cordless in what we do would be quite large.

    #721482
    GTokley
    Pro
    Belleville, ON

    Nowadays, no one uses a corded drill, as the inconvenience of cord wrangling is inefficient.

    We still use corded drills. The corded ½” drill has not been replaced by batteries yet. Not for plumbers or carpenters. Oh and the corded Skil Saw still has it’s place too.

    I am some what surprised hearing this. I am sure some corded tools will always have it’s place in the trades.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #721502
    CB
    Spectator

    We still use corded drills. The corded ½” drill has not been replaced by batteries yet. Not for plumbers or carpenters.

    Of late the only time I haul out the red half inch hole shooter magnum is when I’m mixing thinset, mortar, mud, or paint.

    Looks like Makita has got a cordless app for that line of duty too…

    1/2″ chuck, high torque, low speed… pretty much like my 30 year old Milwaukee Magnum Hole Shooter… only without a cord.

    #721519
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I have a pretty beat up Ridgid corded mud mixer.

    Have used it for several smaller jobs to mix 5 gallon buckets concrete or stucco.

    They do have cordless versions, even programmable, but I moved out of the Ridgid cordless platform some time ago.

    I also use a corded Bosch SDS+ rotary hammer for chipping and drilling concrete. I hear good feedback on the battery version but I guess I am not ready to switch that out yet…and yes a heavy Milwaukee hole hoag somewhere that I haven’t touch for years.

    I hate winding up the cord at the end of the day though.

    #721571
    CB
    Spectator

    Thank you for the photos of the Ridgid mixer. I had not seen those before.

    #721579
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Thank you for the photos of the Ridgid mixer. I had not seen those before.

    I’ve heard of it, but had never found reviews on it til today.

    These two are good to get a good sense of it for those who are interested.

    I have a single paddle QEP mixer and an electric cement drum mixer and that does me just fine for what I need.

    #721587
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    The battery investment to go to all cordless in what we do would be quite large.

    Yes it would retail prices are around $100 a battery unless you can find a sale.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #721601

    The battery investment to go to all cordless in what we do would be quite large.

    Yes it would retail prices are around $100 a battery unless you can find a sale.

    Yeah that’s one of the reasons lots of people trying to stick with one or two platforms. The batteries can be quite pricey

    #721604

    Those Ridgid dual paddle models look like a good design, but I do not do enough of that work.

    Will

    #721612
    CB
    Spectator

    The battery investment to go to all cordless in what we do would be quite large.

    Yes it would retail prices are around $100 a battery unless you can find a sale.

    To take advantage of the functional freedom and ease and speed of cordless, one has to go all in. I have a dozen 6 ah LXT batteries in rotation, all purchased within the last 6 months.

    #721620

    The battery investment to go to all cordless in what we do would be quite large.

    Yes it would retail prices are around $100 a battery unless you can find a sale.

    To take advantage of the functional freedom and ease and speed of cordless, one has to go all in. I have a dozen 6 ah LXT batteries in rotation, all purchased within the last 6 months.

    Are you mainly running Makita cordless , how many tools from them do you have ,
    Do you just have those batteries , or do you have other amp hour Makita batteries.
    I’ve always made sure to have extra batteries in either platform

    #721625
    CB
    Spectator

    Are you mainly running Makita cordless , how many tools from them do you have ,
    Do you just have those batteries , or do you have other amp hour Makita batteries.
    I’ve always made sure to have extra batteries in either platform

    I am running four cordless platforms currently, with the goal to pare it down to just one or two. (What the guys in my company run is not part of this assessment. There are shop and company service truck tools, and then there are my personal tools, and they do not interbreed).

    Because I want to pare platforms down to just one or two, the decision on which platform to pare down to became more important than I had previously believed, which used to be getting the most appropriate tool for the job, regardless of brand or battery platform, and just bring along the charger and deal with it. No big deal.

    But it actually kind of IS a big deal, PRECISELY because of what we are talking about now… the PRICE of batteries, and the QUANTITY of batteries necessary to have available on hand at the ready here and now in order for cordless to be utterly seamless and power impediment free.

    It isn’t the hassle of having another charger to deal with. It is more the expense in creating the convenience of having a dozen batteries upon which to draw from. That is the benefit of having one comprehensive platform… but a dozen high amp hour batteries can potentially be a four figure investment alone.

    Just this afternoon I juggled batteries. Some tools are at one job, some are at another, but I’m doing some yardwork today, and happened to have my compact recip with me. I popped the battery out of it and threw it in my chainsaw bada bing bada boom I’m in business. Green recycling can filled and ready for pickup. And I could keep the batteries in my hedge trimmer and weed whacker.

    When I finally made the connection of how useful it would be to also have cordless out door power equipment is when I got real serious about revamping my entire cordless battery platform, and at that point the selection criterion became a matter of finding a battery platform that is cross compatible with both workweek and weekend needs.

    In the United States, Bosch presents a very limited selection of cordless offerings, many of which are duplicate iterations of hand held drills, grinders, and saws, without much variety in other types of tools… so that sort of forces one to consider the condiments instead of the burger. The main condiments are ketchup, mustard, and relish. Ketchup has great marketing, and strong plumbing. Mustard has universal presence (every store carries mustard), and great grips. Really, really great grips.

    I had already ruled out Ryobi based on the neon slime PlaySkool color alone. Makes my eyes hurt just looking at them. Plus the huge ungainly ryobi one battery. Ridgid, which I have a few pieces of, on their older 14.4v battery platform, I respected as tough and durable, but their lifetime warranty ruse bugged me. I don’t like supporting that game.

    Porter Cable, of which I have about eight of their 20v MAC tools, along with a dozen of their 4 ah batteries, is going nowhere as a brand, and wasn’t getting it with what they did have. PC just happened to be my first Lithium Ion platform simply because I was given a PC impact driver as a gift, and it was WORLDS better than any of the nicad and nimh battery platforms that I had used in the 20 years previous.

    Knowing that the wrong battery platform selection could be a lifetime sentence to purgatory, or a very expensive lesson, I did take some time to consider the options back then, but the PC system presented the best bargain of the bunch, so I went for it, because I could get 4ah batteries for $50 each on sale, back in the days several years ago when DeWalt 4ah batteries were $150 each, and there were no 6 amp hour batteries available. FlexVolt hadn’t been invented yet.

    I’ve been complimented on how I can paper a house in a windy coastal city without need for temporary battens to hold the paper on over the weekend. The other guys hammer too many staples in, which causes the paper to rip away. It takes me longer than them, but I credit my use of a 30 year old Makita 9.6V B9000 nicd battery powered T2200D T-50 stapler, to place one staple every 6″ up every stud. Minimizes paper penetrations. Keeps it the dual layer paper (second layer is bond break) taut and tidy, even in high winds.

    I began to think of my other old Makita tools that I still use today, like the little 3-3/8″ paper thin kerf saw I used to cut already installed drywall with, prior to my recent purchase of Makita’s purpose built drywall saw. I relish these old tools, which I’ve used for 30-35 years.

    And today, just like back in the 1980s, Makita still seems to lead the pack in pure variety of cordless offerings, many of which are unique to the Makita platform. And Makita also stands alone as a company which hasn’t been bought or sold or subsumed under or reinvented by any other company. They must be doing something right to have survived all the various economic downturns that crop up every decade or so.

    The final litmus test for me this time around was OPE. More than any other brand, Makita’s cordless OPE offerings are comprehensive, professional class, and run on the exact same battery as their construction tools, and any battery amp hour size not only fits.. it works. There was no other viable choice but the teal green relish… even though I didn’t relish having to buy a bevy of batteries all over again.

    I don’t buy “kits”. I buy the tools that I need individually, as I need them. I still don’t have any 18v Makita drills or impact drivers… usually what people start with when they buy into a battery platform.

    Off the top of my head… I currently have 13 LXT batteries, 12 of which are 6 ah, one of which is a compact 2 AH for times when space is limited. And I have about a dozen LXT tools, all of which are unique and do not replicate any of the older tools I have on other battery platforms.

    The overall plan is to hand off my older tools on other battery platforms to those around me who need them, as I gradually acquire Makita 18v replacements for the functions those other tools serve.

    I hope that answers all your questions!

    The mental thought process is shared, because it really is a weird process. In the old days, we compared and purchased corded tools for their individual merits. The power source was the same, plug it in… so any holistic thinking about a “system” was purely brand loyalty, not an economic necessity or a matter of functional efficiency. Nowadays, things are totally different, where the battery power ecosystem is as expensive as the tools themselves.

    #721744
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    I have a dozen 6 ah LXT batteries in rotation, all purchased within the last 6 months.

    I agree the problem comes when they change the design and your significant investment in batteries now only fits your older tools but going forward you’ll need to invest again.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #721760
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I have a dozen 6 ah LXT batteries in rotation, all purchased within the last 6 months.

    I agree the problem comes when they change the design and your significant investment in batteries now only fits your older tools but going forward you’ll need to invest again.

    I’m not expecting this to happen til the next gen of batteries comes out which from what I’ve read are likely gonna be aluminum based battery tech. At least another five years out, if not more.

    They should be a lot smaller than what lithiums are now or can get to even with further advancements in lithium technology, hold more power, charge in a fraction of the time lithium takes and not be as dangerous for fires as lithiums.

    Makes me wonder if their bodies could be changed such that for things like drills that it would be Sharpie marker shaped and they just get inserted into the body of the handle of a drill rather than hanging off the bottom like all non 12V style cordless drills accept today.

    #721764

    @CB not all my questions but pretty close lol

    #721768
    CB
    Spectator

    Makes me wonder if their bodies could be changed such that for things like drills that it would be Sharpie marker shaped and they just get inserted into the body of the handle of a drill rather than hanging off the bottom like all non 12V style cordless drills accept today.

    That would be an ergonomic giant leap backwards. Makita already tried that 40 years ago.

    B7000 7.2vdc

    Try standing this little drill on a workbench so that it can be quickly snatched to screw two boards held perpendicularly with the other hand. The drill will fall over. It requires more freehand articulation to pick up from a lay flat position on a bench, table, floor, sawhorse, etc… than it does when drills and drivers are standing upright.

    When Makita upped the voltage to 9.6v in the form of the B9000 long battery tool system… that became an adhoc industry standard that Makita supported for over 30 years (which is one good reason why I’m not worried about an investment in the current deeply supported Makita LXT battery platform)…

    …Makita removed some of the forward angle slant out of the drill driver handle… the beginning step in the Darwinistic evolvement of the drill and driver shape that has been gradually optimized over decades of experience and user feedback.

    When Makita added two more cells to make 12 volts, the same awkward inside handle shape prevailed, only more ungainly so…

    Here is a 12v and 9.6v laying down side by side for comparison. They have to lay down because they can’t stand up.

    Then, someone came up with the idea to “hang the battery off” the bottom of the handle, rather than ensconcing it entirely within the inside of the grip. This bit of brilliance accomplished several things…

    1. Provided a wider foot print for the tool to stand up to be easily and repeatedly set down and picked up again, without holstering, while still being able to be holstered.

    2. Lowered the concentration of mass down to the base of the handle, to reduce tip over propensity… like a patio umbrella stand is heavier at the bottom

    3. Most importantly, the relocation of mass concentration at the base of the handle, furthest away from the axis of rotation of the drill motor, serves as a counter ballast to reaction torque, which reduces transient strains on the wrist.

    4. Coincidentally, it exposed the air cooled battery pack to open free air, rather than having the heat of the battery trapped inside a handle oven that itself is being kept warm by the operator’s firm hard working grip.

    So no, we don’t want to go backwards.

    Makita instead chose to go forwards, revamping the 12v battery to this shape…

    And the tool battery designs Makita has produced ever since all have aspects of the four benefit points listed above.

    #721769
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Those older style ones are definitely not what I was thinking of. They were clumsily big handled and unbalanced. The new smaller version of what would be aluminum battery based would not recur those past issues with making a battery that could be significantly lighter, slimmer and shorter than those of the very old tech they had long ago. Imagine a battery the size of your index of pinky finger. No larger. That to me would work fine for a fully insertable into the handle type of system. Might also allow them to make the drills more waterproof also. Be nice one day if everything was at least IP64 rated.

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