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HELP to INSTALL RETRO FIT WINDOW WITHOUT FRAME

This topic contains 19 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Seven-Delta-FortyOne 2 weeks ago.

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  • #730366

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California

    Hi everyone,
    This is my first post on here. I am new & need some advice.
    Here is the story so you get an idea of the issue.
    My husband & I had an original kitchen window that came with our home. We had our home rented out & evicted the renter last year. It happened that the renter broke the window. He never mentioned this to us. We found out later after he was evicted.

    Last month My husband & I Went to Home depot & ordered a special order Jeld Wen brand retro fit window, to go right inside the existing metal frame.

    My father was helping my husband & I with our home. My husband told my father to Only remove the windows & leave everything alone. My husband kept telling my father to make sure he knew.

    Prior to trying to install the window in the metal frame, My father cut the dry wall around the window, he bent the bottom of the frame & cut half of the metal frame on 1 side then removed the existing metal frame.
    The retrofit window fits in the area, except for there is the half inch gap where the old existing frame used to be. The window fits in the space & is butt up against the exterior stucco.
    with the existing metal frame there was a lip at the bottom also, that is now gone.
    My husband & I aren’t really sure what to do regarding how to fix this.

    I am wondering if anyone knows how we fix the issue, is there any way? What do we do? Also, regarding the weep holes at the bottom do we need a gutter or lip on the bottom of the window for the water to drain out?

    Thanks,
    Bonnie

    #730376

    Sorpa
    Pro
    Pierrefonds, Qc

    Any pictures to see what’s all about?

    #730377

    Boschmanbrian
    Pro
    Montreal , QC, Canada

    Any pictures to see what’s all about?

    That’s what I was wondering. Definitely be better

    #730378

    CB
    Pro

    Bonnie,

    You are wise to be concerned, and to put the brakes on the project.

    Even if the special ordered window could not be returned, it would cost you far less to give the brand new retrofit window away, then to try to install it without the benefit of the previous window’s frame, and more importantly, flashing and water shedding provisions, which are likely gone with the destruction of the previous window’s frame.

    You might be better off starting over, to get the sill, jamb, and head flashing done right, to keep water out of the building, and to prevent costly dry rot and mold issues five to ten years down the line.

    Even if you sell the house before then, there is still some exposure to liability, especially if you don’t fully disclose to the potential buyer the circumstances of the retrofit… and that downline downsides only increase on the chance that no permit was pulled for the window replacement. A special order window has an order number, which can be linked to you.

    There are two silver linings in this temporary cloud.

    First, a new construction replacement window, as opposed to a retrofit, is far more reliable in terms of maintaining the sanctity of the building envelope than retrofit windows, which often solely rely on caulk… whereas new construction windows have a nail fin or equivalent geometric provision that mechanically integrates with the water shedding system of the building’s drain plane.

    Second, now that a new construction window is on the table for consideration, the opportunity to put in a garden or greenhouse window enters into the realm of possibilities for the kitchen.

    Windows should have their own provision for draining the water that sheets down the panes of glass and into the tracks. But managing the water that drains out of the window frame, as well as condensation that is generated inside and beneath the window frame, along with wind driven horizontal rain, and pressure differentials within and outside centrally heated and air conditioned spaces… still relys on good flashing materials and technique, not just caulk.

    At this point, I would resolve that opening in the wall with a new construction window approach.

    #730435

    If you can add some detailed pictures we can help you on this issue .

    Always willing to learn .

    #730438

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California

    Thanks CB for the advice & suggestions.

    I tried attaching photos, but the file size was to big.

    #730439

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California

    I had to resize the photos taken on my cell phone, to get them to post.

    Here are photos of the window regarding no frame.

    is it possible to do full frame installation for the window? As in building a frame, jam, insulation, ect…

    any suggestions or help would be great.

    #730447

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California

    Photos Continue

    #730449

    Sorpa
    Pro
    Pierrefonds, Qc

    I see plenty of space for insulation. Buy a can of foam and go all around.
    Outside caulking all around and inside you can finish it up with quarter rounds.

    #730458

    From what I see just make sure your points of screws are shimmed so window won’t move during use before you add foam or use insulation . Fill that stucco in with patching material before you add caulk around the window frame .

    Always willing to learn .

    #730470

    CB
    Pro

    Expanding foam?

    She’s not trying to block light or air… she’s trying to maintain the integrity of the building envelope and reject wind driven rain and water sheeting down the exterior walls from saturating and penetrating the non flashed gaps in a window that was specifically sized as a retrofit… as in smaller than the framed opening… in reliance on the previous window frame’s flashing… which her father or father in law cut out.

    Expanding foam is great for insulating, but it is not going to keep water out of the building.

    #730497

    Boschmanbrian
    Pro
    Montreal , QC, Canada

    What about using something like hydraulic cement around the windows , then a generous bead of thermoplastic caulking ,
    Obviously after the windows have been installed with proper shim’s and screws

    Good luck with that looking forward to hearing what you did.

    #730524

    CB
    Pro

    The problem ain’t the gap…. it’s the lap.

    There is no water shedding shingled lap to keep water (and thus MOLD) out of the building.

    The only way to solve this problem is to install the right kind of window and flash it properly. This means sill pan, jamb flashing, head flashing, and drip cap. This means removing the drywall in the jambs, removing the sill, chiseling away the stucco, wire and lath around the perimeter of the opening, and layering the drain plane bottom to top.

    #730528

    Boschmanbrian
    Pro
    Montreal , QC, Canada

    <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>The problem ain’t the <em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>gap…. it’s the <em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>lap.

    There is no water shedding shingled lap to keep water (and thus MOLD) out of the building.

    The only way to solve this problem is to install the right kind of window and flash it properly. This means sill pan, jamb flashing, head flashing, and drip cap. This means removing the drywall in the jambs, removing the sill, chiseling away the stucco, wire and lath around the perimeter of the opening, and layering the drain plane bottom to top.

    😵, Wow sounds like a bigger job than on a typical siding style home.
    I might have to check it out more , interesting , thanks

    #730547

    <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>The problem ain’t the <em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>gap…. it’s the <em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>lap.

    There is no water shedding shingled lap to keep water (and thus MOLD) out of the building.

    The only way to solve this problem is to install the right kind of window and flash it properly. This means sill pan, jamb flashing, head flashing, and drip cap. This means removing the drywall in the jambs, removing the sill, chiseling away the stucco, wire and lath around the perimeter of the opening, and layering the drain plane bottom to top.

    With that window being pretty much covered with that massive overhang from what I see . They should be okay with out doing a redo of there work for the time being . They just have to keep an eye on the exterior caulking and such . So down the road they can do the proper install .

    Always willing to learn .

    #731035

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California

    Here are photos of the frame removed, and rough opening.
    If anyone has any ideas regarding how to proceed.

    #731041

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California
    #731047

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California
    #731052

    bonbon1981
    Pro
    Apple Valley, California

    Here are photos of what the frame was supposed to look like. Prior to removing the glass window in the kitchen.

    #731084

    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    It looks and sounds like you have the wrong size and wrong style of window.

    The only right way to do it, is to do it right.

    But now you see why DIY’ing it, doesn’t always save money. There is a reason some of us are professionals at what we do. We’ve spent countless hours working in and learning our trade.

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of DIY’ers and such on this site, who lack professional experience, and they give some very poor advice.

    You really need to be careful, picking through what advice you follow.

    Goin' Down In Flames........

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