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Flangeless Windows. Do You Use Them?

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  • #540234
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    I personally don’t like them at all. I don’t work with Euro brands, so I usually get to choose flange or no flange.

    I think flashing them is difficult to impossible to do correctly, and relies on caulking far too much. And getting them in the frame plumb and square is more difficult when you’re working alone.

    When I’m installing windows in a remodel situation, if the previous builder ran the siding all the way to the window frame, I’ll just cut it back a little more than the width of the flange, and then fill it in with a strip of plywood, over the flange. I don’t like siding run like that any way, and I never do it that way in new construction. I’ll install the windows first, then trim, then butt the siding to the trim.

    I guess siding and trim details should have been a separate thread, but the two topics do kind of go together.

    Your thoughts?

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #540243
    Warren6810
    Moderator
    Akron, OH

    The only time we see anything flangeless is just on vinyl replacement. I do remember some a few years ago, but I know there is just no good way to set/flash them properly. Kind of like when we used to run a lot of T-1-11 and you had to decide if the flanges went over the siding, or vice versa.

    #540245

    I’ve done it many ways . When I did city work I did so many replacement windows . I would caulk the window to the window stop . Then I would cap the wood frame . With new construction your married to sizes . Replacement window can be made to any size .

    Always willing to learn .

    #540251
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    The only time I’ve used flangless windows was on an old home with a stucco facade. The “trim” was a painted band around the window opening and the window itself was inset into the opening. The walls were block with a stud wall on the interior (around 12″ thick or so), being that the windows were set about 3″ back from the edge of the stucco, a flange wasn’t an option.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #540256

    Almost all commercial windows are flangless. They also have weep systems integrated into the frames and use much better sealant then normal resi caulks. We just had 6 windows replaced on ajob using aluminum frames without flanges. It was a brick exterior with resi style framing. It is a nice way to replace that type of window if it is done correctly.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #540259

    Almost all commercial windows are flangless. They also have weep systems integrated into the frames and use much better sealant then normal resi caulks. We just had 6 windows replaced on ajob using aluminum frames without flanges. It was a brick exterior with resi style framing. It is a nice way to replace that type of window if it is done correctly.

    but most commercial jobs don’t have to deal with wood structure’s . Mostly it’s block or steal . Not that it’s cheap to fix leaks . Just a different approach . What brand of window you using on that new build .

    Always willing to learn .

    #540268
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    Kind of like when we used to run a lot of T-1-11 and you had to decide if the flanges went over the siding, or vice versa.

    Fortunately, not too many homes around here built with structural siding. Remodeled a few older one’s, though. I guess the advantage is sheathing and siding going up in one step, but openings are tough.

    I’ve used it on outbuildings. It’s great for a small shed sort of thing. Frame, side, and roof in a day. Yippeee.

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #540272
    Austin
    Pro
    Covington, KY

    There are quite a few times we set windows where the flanges weren’t an option. When doing remodels when the exterior isn’t touched, we. Do a lot of those, it makes it hard to use the flanges. But new builds Everytime.

    #540273

    Almost all commercial windows are flangless. They also have weep systems integrated into the frames and use much better sealant then normal resi caulks. We just had 6 windows replaced on ajob using aluminum frames without flanges. It was a brick exterior with resi style framing. It is a nice way to replace that type of window if it is done correctly.

    but most commercial jobs don’t have to deal with wood structure’s . Mostly it’s block or steal . Not that it’s cheap to fix leaks . Just a different approach . What brand of window you using on that new build .

    True @Skillman but they still have to be installed properly to shed water.

    We will be using Andersen 400 series windows on our new build.

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #540274
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    The only time I’ve used flangless windows was on an old home with a stucco facade. The “trim” was a painted band around the window opening and the window itself was inset into the opening. The walls were block with a stud wall on the interior (around 12″ thick or so), being that the windows were set about 3″ back from the edge of the stucco, a flange wasn’t an option.

    Yeah, I guess stucco is a good place for flangeless. I shudder just thinking about remodel work on a wood-framed stucco building. Then you’re really relying on sealant, and a failure would more than likely be disastrous.

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #540278
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    There are quite a few times we set windows where the flanges weren’t an option. When doing remodels when the exterior isn’t touched, we. Do a lot of those, it makes it hard to use the flanges. But new builds Everytime.

    Only if the originals were flangeless, I assume. Otherwise, you’d have to at least remove trim?

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #540281
    Seven-Delta-FortyOne
    Pro
    The Emerald Triangle, Northern California

    We just had 6 windows replaced on ajob using aluminum frames without flanges. It was a brick exterior with resi style framing. It is a nice way to replace that type of window if it is done correctly.

    That’s a little outside of my area of expertise. I’d be interested to know how you would detail that. Did you set them back flush with framing?

    Delta

    Goin' Down In Flames........

    #540288

    They were set out into the brick facade. The sill has end damns and slope out. The sides and top do rely on sealant as the main weather barrier. Tremco Dymonic sealant was used…that is some damn good stuff!!

    Andrew

    A Working Pro since 1995!

    Member since March 26, 2014.

    #540289
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    The only time I’ve used flangless windows was on an old home with a stucco facade. The “trim” was a painted band around the window opening and the window itself was inset into the opening. The walls were block with a stud wall on the interior (around 12″ thick or so), being that the windows were set about 3″ back from the edge of the stucco, a flange wasn’t an option.

    Yeah, I guess stucco is a good place for flangeless. I shudder just thinking about remodel work on a wood-framed stucco building. Then you’re really relying on sealant, and a failure would more than likely be disastrous.

    Delta

    Unfortunately the caulk is basically your only option in a situation like that. The window was ordered to fit the opening, less about an 1/8″ all around if I recall. Not much of a gap, but enough for water to get in if the caulk fails.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #540308
    asevereid
    Pro
    Kamloops, BC

    I’ll be dealing with my first flange less windows in the coming weeks… I’m assisting in a siding job where the windows are being replaced. Existing units are original to the home (single pane, double hung), and all we are doing is removing the existing stops, removing the sliding and fixed units, and inserting a new vinyl unit that will be screwed through the sides.
    I’m interested to see what the manufacturer recommends for water proofing.

    Lurking Hit and Run poster.

    #540309
    #540323
    asevereid
    Pro
    Kamloops, BC

    Thanks, looks like you had to do some rot removal on that?
    Our sills seem to be in good shape, but I’ll reference these pics again if you don’t mind.

    Lurking Hit and Run poster.

    #540324
    Clev08
    Pro

    Usually flange less only for replacement windows where we can’t/don’t want to touch the trim. Otherwise we prefer windows with flanges

    #540333
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    When retofitting windows into a house one can pull out the old alum window and not touch the window trim. The new Flangeless window can then be slipped into place and yes one part polyurethane caulk would seal it up. By ordering the new window 3/8″ smaller hight and width the caulking has a good footing to make a seal.

    Dirty

    A Working Pro since 1988!

    Member since January 26, 2013.

    #540400
    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Moderator
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    About the only time we have used them is when setting a window in brick or stucco. I prefer not to use them as, like others have said, you are relying to much on caulk.

    We did a reside where the homeowner had another contractor replace windows at the same time. The other guy used units without flanges even though we had the siding off at the time. It made no sense to me.

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