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Battery and Charger Interoperability Discussions

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  • #700705
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    There is a recent track saw thread that went off track on batteries, battery adapters, chargers, will brands standardize on batteries etc…

    So let’s discuss batteries, chargers, adapters etc… here.

    Specifically I find interesting are:

    What kind of adapters exist to use which brand battery on which other brand?

    What brand charger will charge what brand batteries?

    If you use a Milwaukee battery on a Makita saw with an adapter, does it mean you can charge the Milwaukee battery with the Makita charger?

    For example, I know Bosch owns Dremel and Rotozip, and I have heard some Bosch 12v chargers will charge some Dremel or Rotozip batteries, or even can use Dremel batteries on Bosch tools, but I am not sure what works with what.

    #700707

    I converted a older Bosch ni-cad battery pack that was pretty much toast, I bought an RC pack for those remote control cars , it’s now a 2.8 lipo from a 2.4 ni-cad , and I use a multi charge for this, really don’t recommend doing this,
    I had one of those batteries catch fire,
    I use it for my Bosch 18 volt plane.

    #700715
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    I don’t think there will be any interchangeability coming from brand to brand. There’s just too much money to be made in selling batteries.

    Dirty

    A Working Pro since 1988!

    Member since January 26, 2013.

    #700736
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I think using adapters or knock off batteries exposes us to risks or fire and/or tool/equipment damage, so I won’t go near any of this stuff. Cheap knock off crap out of China imo. Do you really trust that? I don’t one iota. Potential risk involved is too high.

    #700737
    Sprokitz
    Pro
    Eastern shore of, Pa

    I have heard some Bosch 12v chargers will charge some Dremel or Rotozip batteries, or even can use Dremel batteries on Bosch tools, but I am not sure what works with what.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=336&v=pen4xt99tl0

    #700738
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I think using adapters or knock off batteries exposes us to risks or fire and/or tool/equipment damage, so I won’t go near any of this stuff. Cheap knock off crap out of China imo. Do you really trust that? I don’t one iota. Potential risk involved is too high.

    Well, most power tool batteries are made in China, so the provenance is not a major detergent for me.

    I would consider buying an adapter if it means if I have 4 cordless platforms I don’t have to carry around 4 chargers and four sets of batteries. Of course, safety is a concern. So the adapters need to be well made, doesn’t add to much bulk, good fitment, and most of all, can’t be one of those home grown one off adapters someone experimented with.

    It’s not always a cost issue, but it gives you some freedom to use other brand cordless tools without having to formally adopt the platform.

    #700740
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I don’t think there will be any interchangeability coming from brand to brand. There’s just too much money to be made in selling batteries.

    You never know.

    Bosch owns Dremel and Rotozip and there is already some interoperability amongst their 12V chargers and batteries.

    I think companies like TTI, Bosch, SBD with multiple brands under their control might gain some loyalty if they establish some synergy on their cordless.

    For example, if I can use Milwaukee batteries on Ryobi, AEG, and Ryobi, I might consider those brands first when looking for a cordless tools. Right now, I have no reason whatsoever to consider a Ryobi or Ridgid even if I am on Milwaukee.

    In addition, many brands are coming out with job site radios that are compatible with their mobile storage boxes. Craftsman radio is the same as dewalt radio and compatible with TSTAK, but craftsman radio box has to charge Craftsman 20V batteries while the dewalt box has to charge dewalt. That must be a challenge to have to make two identical boxes but the guts to charge are different.

    I also think tomorrow’s batteries will be smarter, like with built in temperature, vibration, GPS sensors and it may be more and more economical to standardize then to deviate.

    One can hope.

    #700747
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I think using adapters or knock off batteries exposes us to risks or fire and/or tool/equipment damage, so I won’t go near any of this stuff. Cheap knock off crap out of China imo. Do you really trust that? I don’t one iota. Potential risk involved is too high.

    Well, most power tool batteries are made in China, so the provenance is not a major deterent for me.

    Maybe so, but I doubt the knock offs are made by the same companies that make them for the OEMs nor to the same quality.

    #700778
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    Maybe so, but I doubt the knock offs are made by the same companies that make them for the OEMs nor to the same quality.

    You are probably right. That’s why I would like some discussions on them, to see what’s available, and what experiences are out there.

    About the knock offs made by same companies that supplies the OEMs, I have a little story, not on power tools but on luxury leather goods.

    A very famous fashion brand is having ladies purses, handbags and wallets made in China. They want to set up their own factory, hire their own people, assemble their own products to their specs and have their own QAQC. This was back in 2003 or so, when a friend of mine was involved in the process of setting up the factory.

    In order to build their own factory they need a local partner. You can’t just start a business over there due to their foreign ownership rules. So they had to find a local partner, and usually the local partner is “recommended” or introduced to you and it’s always some cousin or brother of some state officials, and by having them involved it means you get permit approvals much faster.

    Once you set things up the local partner is the one putting the team together, you supply $, expertise, design and the process and they make it work. So once things get rolling and a few iterations later they got the kinks worked out and you have nice purses and handbags coming off the assembly lines.

    Now like six months later they found knock offs in Taiwan, Thailand and NYC. These knockoffs are exactly like the real ones. After some investigations they found out the factory workers, after they went home every day, return to the factory after dinner, work another 3-4 hours, using the same materials, the same crew, to produce the knock offs the same way LOL. The local partner was involved and was the one who orchestrated everything. Even the material supply chain was doctored so they didn’t know they were losing materials for the “second shift”. In additional, their QAQC team was real tough and rejected many legit items and those were also folded into the night shift inventory. Apparently this was not an isolated incident and many companies who partnered with Chinese companies experienced crazy stuff like this.

    So don’t say knock offs are not coming from the same factory LOL.

    #700790
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    I have not had much luck with knock-off batteries. Fit sometimes is a problem and they seem to not last as long. I will only buy a knockoff battery if the OEM battery has been discontinued.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC
    (and also the World's Fastest Poster)

    #700801
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Maybe so, but I doubt the knock offs are made by the same companies that make them for the OEMs nor to the same quality.

    You are probably right. That’s why I would like some discussions on them, to see what’s available, and what experiences are out there.

    About the knock offs made by same companies that supplies the OEMs, I have a little story, not on power tools but on luxury leather goods.

    A very famous fashion brand is having ladies purses, handbags and wallets made in China. They want to set up their own factory, hire their own people, assemble their own products to their specs and have their own QAQC. This was back in 2003 or so, when a friend of mine was involved in the process of setting up the factory.

    In order to build their own factory they need a local partner. You can’t just start a business over there due to their foreign ownership rules. So they had to find a local partner, and usually the local partner is “recommended” or introduced to you and it’s always some cousin or brother of some state officials, and by having them involved it means you get permit approvals much faster.

    Once you set things up the local partner is the one putting the team together, you supply $, expertise, design and the process and they make it work. So once things get rolling and a few iterations later they got the kinks worked out and you have nice purses and handbags coming off the assembly lines.

    Now like six months later they found knock offs in Taiwan, Thailand and NYC. These knockoffs are exactly like the real ones. After some investigations they found out the factory workers, after they went home every day, return to the factory after dinner, work another 3-4 hours, using the same materials, the same crew, to produce the knock offs the same way LOL. The local partner was involved and was the one who orchestrated everything. Even the material supply chain was doctored so they didn’t know they were losing materials for the “second shift”. In additional, their QAQC team was real tough and rejected many legit items and those were also folded into the night shift inventory. Apparently this was not an isolated incident and many companies who partnered with Chinese companies experienced crazy stuff like this.

    So don’t say knock offs are not coming from the same factory LOL.

    Why does that story not surprise me. China….land of the misfits….and communism! Their government just doesn’t care.

    #700822
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    I think using adapters or knock off batteries exposes us to risks or fire and/or tool/equipment damage, so I won’t go near any of this stuff. Cheap knock off crap out of China imo. Do you really trust that? I don’t one iota. Potential risk involved is too high.

    Well, most power tool batteries are made in China, so the provenance is not a major deterent for me.

    Maybe so, but I doubt the knock offs are made by the same companies that make them for the OEMs nor to the same quality.

    I use a knock off battery in my van.

    Dirty

    A Working Pro since 1988!

    Member since January 26, 2013.

    #700930
    redwood
    Pro

    Regarding Bosch and Dremel, I have the Dremel 8220 12V cordless rotary tool and numerous Bosch 12V tools. The batteries look nearly identical, but the are not interchangeable, neither in the charger or the tools. It’s been awhile since I looked at this, it may just require filing a tab off or something, but out of the box they are not interchangeable. I needed a backup battery for the Dremel and I did buy a knockoff and it has worked as well as the original Dremel battery.

    Mark E.

    Pioneer, CA

    Working Pro 1972 - 2015
    Member since Jan 22, 2013
    www.creative-redwood-designs.com

    #701028
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    I needed a backup battery for the Dremel and I did buy a knockoff and it has worked as well as the original Dremel battery.

    Did you get from this company when you needed a cheap chinese knock off battery??Vanon Batteries ??
    https://www.vanonbatteries.com/?utm_source=vanonbatteries&utm_campaign=cb21f63c6e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_05_05_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a474fd0617-cb21f63c6e-64254487&goal=0_a474fd0617-cb21f63c6e-64254487&mc_cid=cb21f63c6e&mc_eid=bc7b5ebe83

    Dirty

    A Working Pro since 1988!

    Member since January 26, 2013.

    #708442
    CB
    Pro

    it may just require filing a tab off or something, but out of the box they are not interchangeable.

    This. I did exactly this (file off a tab, with seamless success.

    Stanley Black & Decker makes the same so called “20V” Max batteries for at least five different lines of tools… professional Bostich, flagship DeWalt, middle of the road woodworker Porter Cable, Walmart special homeowner Black & Decker, and lost in the woods loyalist Craftsman. All so called 20V Max. (There may be more brands as well).

    A local hardware store that was closing their doors for good had this 20v Craftsman charger for 90% off. About $5. Why not? I noticed that the external shape of the Sears Craftsman 20v charger was identical in every way to the Porter Cable 20v charger, but for the label, and but for the Porter Cable batteries would not slide into the Craftsman charger.

    I filed off a tab.

    20v PC battery slid right in and charged right up.

    Several years later, this combination still works perfectly. I’ve since purchased other Porter Cable 20v tools that came with a charger, and I’ve taken apart both the Craftsman and the Porter Cable charger and looked at the crude circuit boards inside, and they were identical.

    Like Dirty said earlier upthread. Making batteries is a license to print money, and these brands live or die based on battery sales, so they design the cases and slides to be non interchangeable. That’s at least what brands that were originally based in the USA do.

    I wouldn’t dream of trying to modify a Makita battery or charger to interchange with any of the TTI or SBD families of brands, nor would I attempt to mix and match anything of TTI with SBD. But I wouldn’t think twice about cutting up more Craftsman 20V to fit my Porter Cable stable, or modifying a Black and Decker 20v to do the same thing, as they are all made under one manufacturing parent. Unfortunately, the DeWalt products are shaped so differently, even if the guts were the same, the housings would be too much of a challenge to trim.

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can't Be The Pro... Be the Poster you'd want to read.

    #708445
    CB
    Pro

    On the other hand, unlike the tool brands that were originally USA businesses, and that are still led by American mentality, the Europeans have a far more intelligent and ecologically sound philosophy that balances consumer and user interests with engineering and cost savings.

    There is actual battery interchange between different cordless tool manufacturers who participate in the Cordless Alliance System, with nine different and separately run brands (mostly German… including the vaunted Mafell line of top tier tools) that share a communized battery platform, led by Metabo.

    .

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can't Be The Pro... Be the Poster you'd want to read.

    #708463
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I wouldn’t dream of trying to modify a Makita battery or charger to interchange with any of the TTI or SBD families of brands, nor would I attempt to mix and match anything of TTI with SBD. But I wouldn’t think twice about cutting up more Craftsman 20V to fit my Porter Cable stable, or modifying a Black and Decker 20v to do the same thing, as they are all made under one manufacturing parent. Unfortunately, the DeWalt products are shaped so differently, even if the guts were the same, the housings would be too much of a challenge to trim.

    That’s very good information, thanks CB.

    I wonder if SBD will eventually bring Dewalt batteries and shapes into “conformance” with the other SBD cordless platform where you can interoperate them with a small “mod”.

    Craftsman VersaStack, Dewalt TSTAK, and Stanley FATMAX are already producing the same mobile tool storage carts and cases that are identical except the logos and color schemes. Each of those is supposed to have their own branded jobsite radio with a built in charging port. I have to think it’s a real pain to have to design and produce the Craftsman VersaStack radio with a Craftsman charger, and a Dewalt TSTAK radio with a Dewalt charger, when they look the same but part of their guts would have to be different because of the charger.

    #708482
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    There is actual battery interchange between different cordless tool manufacturers who participate in the Cordless Alliance System, with nine different and separately run brands (mostly German… including the vaunted Mafell line of top tier tools) that share a communized battery platform, led by Metabo.

    I would be nice if more companies participated. One day hopefully batteries will be universal, the only difference will be voltage and Ah.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC
    (and also the World's Fastest Poster)

    #708514
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    and that are still led by American mentality,

    I really don’t like the way that sounds. It’s strange because I use Japanese tools and they take the same battery in Japan as they do in America as they do in Australia and all over the world. Because those tools all fit the same battery is really not a big deal as none of those brands are even international brands. I talk to people from europe all the time and most of it has become a chithole as of late according to those from France England , Germany is a tossup. but yea it’s a mess over there.

    Dirty

    A Working Pro since 1988!

    Member since January 26, 2013.

    #708516
    CB
    Pro

    It would be nice, but the irony is that the tool conglomerates, such as TTI and SBD seem to want to keep all the different tool brands in their respective portfolios on segregated, non interchangeable batteries, even amongst the brands within their own stables.

    Yet a company like Makita, who is only Makita, and who certainly has enough presence, clout, and market share throughout the world to not have to “share” the resources of developing or improving a battery platform… still chooses to share their battery platform with other professional tool makers, even those owned by competitors of Makita.

    Take Greenlee as an example. Few electricians will argue that Greenlee has, for decades, been the bellweather brand of professional tools for commercial electricians. All of the new battery operated Greenlee knock out punches, bolt cutters, ratchet cutters, die and dieless crimpers, CCX tools, pumps, etc use MAKITA LXT batteries.

    As you can see, Maktia clearly allows Greenlee to use and advertise Makita logo batteries in all of Greenlee’s battery operated commercial tools.

    Now for further irony: Greenlee is owned by Emerson, and Emerson owns Ridgid, and Ridgid makes their own battery operated line of cable crimpers, that uses an entirely different battery system, one that is yet different from the TTI liscensed Ridgid brand!

    So here we have a new Ridgid tool, with a new Ridgid battery, that will not interchange with the new Ridgid battery operated tools sold at Home Depot.

    BE the change you want to see.
    Even if you can't Be The Pro... Be the Poster you'd want to read.

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