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Basement Wall Framing

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  • #11414

    Just wondered what peoples thoughts are on framing basement walls, and if they should be floating or firmly attached on the top and bottom (ie: fastened to the concrete slab and nailed into the floor joists above). It seems like there are several opinions out there, I have seen them fastened to the concrete slab, then nailed into the floor joists through the top plate, but with an inch or so of clearance between the top plate and the floor joists, so that if there was any shifting of things, I guess theoretically the walls would move up and down on the nails in the top plate. Then some are nailed top and bottom with the walls being as snug as possible to the floor joists, and another one I came across, had a 2×6 screwed to the basement floor, then the 2×6 wall was installed above (nailed up to the floor joists), with a 6″ gap between the wall and the bottom plate, then there was 9″ spike every foot or so, that attached this floating wall to the bottom plate (again for settling reasons). Just wondered what peopled opinions were.

    #11464
    jkirk
    Moderator
    halifax, nova scotia

    always fasten the walls to the floor and ceiling, otherwise the wall is gonna move regardless of settling. nothing worse than going to hang a interior door in a wall that moves.. how do you keep the door true. if the two sides of the door opening are moving around causing the door to get a wind in it

    heres a tip, dont fart in a space suit

    #11564

    I should have done a better job explaining, the walls are attached, so that if you grabbed them and tried to move them, they are firmly attached so they stay vertical, etc.. I was just wondering if anyone worries about making sure that the basement walls aren’t tightly framed from the cement to the floor joists. Where if you had a 96″ opening, and you made your wall 95″ and then fastened it to the basement floor, and then used 3 1/2″ nails to fasten the top plate to the joists, so you would have an inch gap between the top plate and the floor joists, with just the spikes spanning this gap. So when you grab the wall it’s firm, but I think the thought is that for any shifting, then the walls would only be able to move vertically (on the nails). Does this make sense? Is it something to be concerned about, or just frame as normal and not worry about it? Thanks!

    #11575
    Nyx
    Pro
    Pittsburgh, PA

    Something about that just doesn’t seem right. I would think that you wouldn’t want any kind of give at all with the hope that the tightly secured framing structure would help prevent shifting rather than building a tolerance into the structure to accommodate a slight shift.

    #11603

    I think it would depend on the ground conditions you’re on. Up here in Winnipeg, Manitoba, we have a gumbo base. We get a lot of ground heaves during the seasons – either frost heave, summer drying, etc. We usually do 2 types of basement framing – up tight (or about 1/4 inch gap between top plate and bottom of joist) around the perimeter walls which are usually overtop of footings and the other way (leaving about a 1 inch gap between top plate and joist) when doing inner walls. That way, when the floor heaves, it has about an inch of travel before it presses against the floor joists. I’ve seen a few basement walls that were butted up against the joist and the inevidable hump in the floor above.

    #11612
    cranbrook2
    Pro
    Belgrave, Ontario , Canada

    When I used to frame a lot of basements , I always took 3 or 4 measures in different spots and then cut all the studs to the same measurement .As long as you don,t have more than 1/2″ of spacing at the most .It is also a good idea to use pressure treated wood for the bottom plate and sill gasket under the bottom plate .

    #11614
    jkirk
    Moderator
    halifax, nova scotia

    i cut my partition studs 1/4″ slack be it basement or on a normal floor, reason being it makes it easier to stand the wall when framing it first.. when i set it in place you dont get jambed up in the floor joists above

    as for teh basement floor heaving. if thats going on someone messed up in the foundation stage. mainly because they didnt get the footings down deep enough for frost to be a non issue other than on windows

    heres a tip, dont fart in a space suit

    #12944
    parenos
    Moderator
    Honesdale, PA

    My thought is if your basement walls are heaving, they should be spending the money to shore that up, before they have someone finish the basement.

    #12975

    frame as normal and dont worry about it

    ~ Rob at http://www.ConcordCarpenter.com

    #14351

    Darryl,

    What did you decide to do?

    ~ Rob at http://www.ConcordCarpenter.com

    #61854
    MRenes
    Pro
    Vienna, Missouri

    Ditto on Brian’s comment. Something must be wrong if you need 3 1/2 inch gap

    #61928
    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Moderator
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    we have done something like that with metal studs and a deep leg track creating a slip joint to allow roof deflection on main floors in commercial project but never in a basement. I dont think I would worry about it unless you have expansive soils and they are not properly conditioned. In Minnesota, we frame everything tight and have no issues.

    #120236
    keko
    Pro

    I have ben framing basement walls in Wisconsin for 24 years attaching the treated bottom plate to floor and the top plate to the joists and have never had a problem

    #120237
    TopNotch
    Pro
    elmwood park, NJ

    I have framed tight many times and I also tried the metal track slip joint method. I think we are all guilty of overthinking stuff. If you walk into an old basement and see some lumps or cracks in the floor then the slip joint is a no brainer.

    Other wise tight or snug is good. So many over spanned floors around here could benefit from a snug partion below. Specially with all of the tile requests.

    Working Pro since 1993

    Tom M

    #120283
    Nyx
    Pro
    Pittsburgh, PA

    you guys brought this thread back from the dead.

    #120316
    Lakelover
    Pro
    Fort Qu'Appelle, SK

    as for teh basement floor heaving. if thats going on someone messed up in the foundation stage. mainly because they didnt get the footings down deep enough for frost to be a non issue other than on windows

    As Redrover said. Expansive clay eats basements up here. No tract houses are anything adaquate. If you want a crack free slab. 4 feet of sand and 20 ft piles. Or a floating wood frame over a shallow crawl space. Sump pumps and detailed drainage tile.

    Block basments, most not filled and rebaered just crumble. I know I have fixed a few.

    As a soil engineer explained, the clay wet to dry will expand 30%. when it moves laterally it has 11 times the force of ice.

    We do all kinds of floating walls. and you always leave access to your telepostsfor adjustment. Very few solid columns here. ICF rules.

    #120381
    TopNotch
    Pro
    elmwood park, NJ

    as for teh basement floor heaving. if thats going on someone messed up in the foundation stage. mainly because they didnt get the footings down deep enough for frost to be a non issue other than on windows

    As Redrover said. Expansive clay eats basements up here. No tract houses are anything adaquate. If you want a crack free slab. 4 feet of sand and 20 ft piles. Or a floating wood frame over a shallow crawl space. Sump pumps and detailed drainage tile.

    Block basments, most not filled and rebaered just crumble. I know I have fixed a few.

    As a soil engineer explained, the clay wet to dry will expand 30%. when it moves laterally it has 11 times the force of ice.

    We do all kinds of floating walls. and you always leave access to your telepostsfor adjustment. Very few solid columns here. ICF rules.

    Those are impressive numbers Lakelover. Where are you from? Where are you from? I don’t know where SKIN is.

    Working Pro since 1993

    Tom M

    #120768
    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Moderator
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    Wh have the expansive clays here in the states also. Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Texas. Back when I did a lot of commercial work, we would run into it in all of those places. Everything was on piers with grade beams and void forns under the grade beams.

    #120802
    kzcarp
    Pro

    we have done something like that with metal studs and a deep leg track creating a slip joint to allow roof deflection on main floors in commercial project but never in a basement.

    That’s what I would suggest too. That deep leg track is a bonus even when you don’t have to worry about floor issues, just cut all of your studs one length and go to town.

    kevin

    #294360
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I think I might have learned two things here.

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