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Attaching half rusted steel to new steel

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  • #746081
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I wonder if digging out deeper all around beyond the existing concrete and using that foam type of post hole post holder might be a viable solution.

    I doubt it. First of all, digging around the existing concrete anchor to expose more, involves more or less making a “crater” around the existing post, not a hole anymore. In that scenrio, I probably would have just dig out the entire base, and put in a bottom piece of new post, add concrete…which if I get caught in the act by the city or a nosy neighbor, then I lose my entire fence. That fence is facing a marina with lots of people walking their dogs and strollers so it’s not like a quiet back yard street where no one would notice.

    In addition, those foam post setting anchors, I am not so sure about these products. I know you must use a post digger to dig out the original hole, in other words, the soil surrounding the hole must be undisturbed, the post inserted, then you do the foam pour. This is so the soil’s bearing capacity is not disturbed. If you dig a crater, those foam won’t work. Furthermore, there has been a lot of failure report with those foams, many reported that it worked but many reported they can lean on a post after a day and nudge it around, resulting in crooked posts out of plumb once you attach panels to it on one side. I doubt I can use those foam products anyways since my water table is only 24″ or so below grade.

    #746087
    Doobie
    Moderator

    I doubt it….

    OK. Makes sense. And I can’t say I’ve ever used that stuff.

    Question….is it possible to slide a segment of pipe OVER the existing metal posts to the bottom of where they are coming out of the concrete?

    #746090
    GTokley
    Pro
    Madoc, ON

    Just wondering how you made out rusty fence post.

    Honestly I can’t believe how strict your rules are where you live.

    Greg
    Do More of What Makes You Happy

    #746098
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    Question….is it possible to slide a segment of pipe OVER the existing metal posts to the bottom of where they are coming out of the concrete?

    I am doing the reverse, I bought a round metal post, that is slightly smaller than the square post, and plan on sliding it in from the top, down through the tubing up top, through the rusted stub at the bottom, into the concrete. Then I will weld the old and new posts together up top, as well as trying to figure out a way to fasten the bottom half rusted stub to the round post (which prompted this thread). Then concrete around the repair with a higher reveal using a short piece of sonotube.

    #746100

    Then I will weld the old and new posts together up top

    Be careful. If it’s galvanized metal the smoke is extremely noxious and can poison you.

    My You Tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA5AretE3xPoVDV61AxUdUA

    I don't do a fast job. I don't do a slow job. I do a half fast job.

    #746103

    Then I will weld the old and new posts together up top

    Be careful. If it’s galvanized metal the smoke is extremely noxious and can poison you.

    Extremely good point Jim ,

    #746107
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    Then I will weld the old and new posts together up top,

    I’d use a chemical solution like fiberglass or epoxy. Welding to rust will not last and will be difficult. Putting cement around the repair will only invite more rust, the chemical repair will be waterproof.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #746141
    Doobie
    Moderator

    OK, what about some kind of butress arrangement? Something that doesn’t require digging out, just outside of the pier footprints that supports the posts?

    Not overly sure what I have in mind in offering that idea. But something that can stand out in their own right to buttress the existing posts. Might look weird, but if you have to ABSOLUTELY not want to simply build anew feets away further in new fence due to bylaw compliance issues, it may be an idea.

    Sorry, I’m already thinking this idea is far fetched and esthetically ugly. But maybe you have a hunch on it for something else nonetheless that may work. Just thought I’d toss it out there.

    On another crazy idea I’m tinkering with, what is the inside diameter of the square post stems that are there presently?

    #746159
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    but if you have to ABSOLUTELY not want to simply build anew feets away further in new fence due to bylaw compliance issues

    It’s not so much losing “a few feet” although that is a smaller part of it. I simply stated “losing a few feet of property” because it simplifies the needed explanations instead of getting too long winded.

    The city code does not allow for any variance when enforcing this newer street facing perimeter fence code. As I said, there are several codes that work together to reduce your fence location.

    (1) Street facing fence must be at least 3 feet inside the property lines.

    (2) all fence with swing out gates must not cross the property line when gate is fully opened – this means if you have a 5′ swing out gate the gate must move back 5′, which kind of mean your fence next to the gate has to go back 5′ too unless you want to do a inside notch type thing.

    (3) a property with a pool must be fenced all around and the gate must obey a certain special set of guidelines.

    (4) If your property abutts two streets (which mine is), then the fence not only need to go back 3′, the corner must go back more, you must go to the property corner, measure 25′ from the corner to each property line, then draw a line connecting the two dots, creating a triangle. The fence must then stay inside this triangle. This is to make it easier for traffic to make a turn without being obscured visually by fences, plantings, whatever. My property is at the end and face streets on three sides, this makes me lose 15′ at two corners.

    As if that’s not bad enough, here are some pictures.

    As you can see, there are physical restrictions too.

    Moving the fence back would mean I need to construct the new fence in the middle of giant rock boulders the size of trucks. It means digging holes in the middle of trees with trunks the size of refrigerators.

    Moving the fence back means the multiple 32″X32″ masonry columns would be left at the property lines, and the fences connecting them be moved away from them.

    Moving the fence back means the new fence would be in the middle of a fish pond.

    A series of mature trees and palms were planted years ago about 3′ in from the fence, moving the fence back means 9 of those trees need to be removed, which ironically is against the landscape code LOL because it involved a large shaving brush tree and four mature palms.

    Moving the rear section of fence (which is wood) also means half of the pool and spa mechanicals would be on the outside of the fence.

    Moving the fence back in the corner also mean the driveway would be cut short by over 7′ to stay inside the sight triangle and I can no longer park my car completely inside the sliding gate.

    Now I had varies meeting with the zoning officials and they said no exception. If the fence cannot be moved back due to all these reasons, then I can elect to not have a fence at all. But code requires a fence due to a pool, a spa, a fish pond, well then, lose the pool, lose the spa, lose the pond, drain them and fill them up with dirt.

    There are other implications on top of these, but those would be enough to try and keep the fence currently in place.

    The only other option is to sue the city.

    #746160

    @Miamicuse yeah it’s definitely complicated
    Beautiful property , I think your idea should be fine , as long as you are able to get the round pipe down enough to solidify the new section that’s going to be placed over the round pipe , that plus the extra concrete around the base hopefully should get it done
    Good luck with that.

    #746203
    Doobie
    Moderator

    The only other option is to sue the city.

    Applying for an exception/variance here, it’s a non-refundable $1,000 for the application. Problem is, if one neighbor poopoos it, and all nearby neighbors would get notice of your application, or the committee decides against it, you basically lose your $1,000 bucks.

    But now I know more clearly your issues. Thanks for the pics and explanation. It really paints the picture much better.

    Back to the drawaing board!

    #746209
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    There are other implications on top of these, but those would be enough to try and keep the fence currently in place.

    Man those are good reasons to “repair” the fence. Hope it all works out.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #746214
    Sorpa
    Pro
    Pierrefonds, Qc

    Beautiful property. It would be a shame to ruin it by moving that fence so you have to figure a solution to go around those stupid bylaws.

    #746241
    Doobie
    Moderator

    Beautiful property. It would be a shame to ruin it by moving that fence so you have to figure a solution to go around those stupid bylaws.

    (3) a property with a pool must be fenced all around and the gate must obey a certain special set of guidelines.

    This rule is likely universal everywhere nowadays. Kids wandering into a pool and drowning are not good. They simply have to be gated/fenced off from the public.

    I imagine the gate rule is like here in that any gate has to be self-closing.

    (4) If your property abutts two streets (which mine is), then the fence not only need to go back 3′, the corner must go back more, you must go to the property corner, measure 25′ from the corner to each property line, then draw a line connecting the two dots, creating a triangle. The fence must then stay inside this triangle. This is to make it easier for traffic to make a turn without being obscured visually by fences, plantings, whatever. My property is at the end and face streets on three sides, this makes me lose 15′ at two corners.

    We have this one here as well. It’s basically so you can see oncoming street or pedestrians/cyclists coming towards an intersection properly.

    Funny enough, yesterday I happen to be coming out of an ancient shopping mall right accross the street in front of our town hall. Couldn’t see the oncoming traffic waiting to do a right hand turn on a red light onto the very busy double laned road waiting to turn onto same road due to overgrown shrubery completely blocking my view of the oncoming cars wizing by.

    You’d think the town would do something, especially since it is just shrubs, but obviously not. Unless you’d be up high like in a dump truck, you can’t see squat. I can see the reasons for that triangle rule at intersecting corners.

    #746251
    Miamicuse
    Pro
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida

    I imagine the gate rule is like here in that any gate has to be self-closing.

    It’s quite a bit more involved than just self closing. It also prohibits certain design and options. For example, it does not allow in-swing gates; it also does not allow for example gates or fences built with horizontal panels, must be vertical because kids could climb up the horizontal panels using them like ladders. Also there cannot be more than 2″ of clearance between the bottom of panels and top of ground (I guess worried that smaller toddlers can climb through), basically a pretty long laundry list.

    We have this one here as well. It’s basically so you can see oncoming street or pedestrians/cyclists coming towards an intersection properly.

    Sight triangle is a necessity in some cases, not all. Being a licensed civil engineer myself I have done many highway interconnector designs and horizontal and vertical passing and stopping sight distances are always an important consideration. But those rules should apply to the specific situation and not to all properties. For example, the streets abutting my property are one way streets. Coming out of my property line is a 4′ concrete sidewalk, then 20′ of a grass swale area before the edge of pavement. That’s over 25′ of buffer between my property line and the edge of travel way. There is no sight problem whatsoever, just incompetence of planners and code officials not being able to solve problems without applying blanket code for everyone. Meanwhile in downtown urban areas where you have high rises with hedges 20′ tall truly blocking turning visibility…”oh well, those don’t apply in downtown”.

    You might wonder, if they get you to move your fence back 3′, what do you do with the space between the property line and the new fence? They dictate that too. You must plant something. Whatever you plant must be selected from a list of like 18 plants on their “native” plant list, can’t just plant anything you want on YOUR property, and these plants must be spaced 24″. Talking about over regulation.

    #746278

    Talking about over regulation

    You do realize that they all came about because some complaint landing on the desk of some petty functionary with a clip board….lol.

    My You Tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA5AretE3xPoVDV61AxUdUA

    I don't do a fast job. I don't do a slow job. I do a half fast job.

    #746285
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    You might wonder, if they get you to move your fence back 3′, what do you do with the space between the property line and the new fence? They dictate that too. You must plant something. Whatever you plant must be selected from a list of like 18 plants on their “native” plant list, can just plant anything you want on YOUR property, and these plants must be spaced 24″. Talking about over regulation.

    Over regulation is right. Man what a laundry list of stuff.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #746290

    Talking about over regulation

    You do realize that they all came about because some complaint landing on the desk of some petty functionary with a clip board….lol.

    Hahaha funny , but most probably true , I can really relate , I had a similar situation a few years ago , it’s my property , but they can tell you what type and quantity of trees you must have on your land ,

    #746339
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    but they can tell you what type and quantity of trees you must have on your land ,

    Wow that’s going a bit too far.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #746349
    Doobie
    Moderator

    You might wonder, if they get you to move your fence back 3′, what do you do with the space between the property line and the new fence? They dictate that too. You must plant something. Whatever you plant must be selected from a list of like 18 plants on their “native” plant list, can just plant anything you want on YOUR property, and these plants must be spaced 24″. Talking about over regulation.

    Over regulation is right. Man what a laundry list of stuff.

    The Nannies and the Ninnies have taken over the building…..soon, they will be dictating limits on how many leaves of toilet paper one is allowed to wipe our butts with.

    Achtung baby! 😟 👎 ⚠

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