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Another deck collapsed today

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 94 total)
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  • #366007

    I think people don’t realize how quickly the weight adds up with a group of people, like you say, 3000lbs is only a group of 20 people, add in a good size deck and a good party could double that pretty easily. And decks are completely exposed to the weather, cut a few corners or some low grade materials equals disaster. I’ve been in hotels as well where the railing is wobbly, concrete is cracked, and i don’t stay out there for long! Most people put too much blind faith in things these days, and don’t use their survival instincts enough, i’ll bet that deck felt wobbly, and as construction people we probably would have noticed something was wrong just by how it felt to walk on, but most people don’t

    So very true. Especially in groups, everybody seems to have “follow the crowd” mentality.

    Sorry, you have lost me here.I understand that many folks wouldn’t understand about building codes, weight distributions…,. I don’t understand how a family having a good time, wanting pictures while having a fun time together, and then suffering this loss should be compared to the “follow the crowed mentality”. This term seems to be used more so in an offensive way, not an empathetic way for the loss and hurt they went through

    #366012
    redwood
    Pro

    Mark, what is the design load for a deck? I don’t normally build decks so I am not familiar.

    It can vary, but a minimum of 40# per sq. ft., often 60# per sqft, and sometimes in commercial applications, up to 100#’s per sq. ft.

    So, at the min. 40#, A 10’x10′ deck, should handle 20 200# people. I suppose they all could fit on the deck, but not much room to move. Plus with every calc there is a safety factor.

    I should say that the above is not totally correct because out of that 40#’s, they allow 10#’s for the structure.

    Mark E.

    Pioneer, CA

    Working Pro 1972 - 2015
    Member since Jan 22, 2013
    www.creative-redwood-designs.com

    #366025
    gomoto69
    Pro
    salmon arm, bc

    What happened was tragic, i’m not trying to take anything away from the horrible losses they suffered, especially being family. All i meant was it’s important to be aware of what happens around us in life, and not be so dependant on inspectors and others to keep us safe, because they’re not always there, or they make mistakes. I’m thinking that deck probably felt shaky, maybe for a while, who knows, and if someone there was more tuned in what was going on with the deck, their survival instincts, might have prevented the tragedy, especially being such a high deck. Maybe it gave no signs, i don’t know, i’m just saying we need to live life being aware of our surroundings and look for danger, especially for our families, don’t depend on others to do it for us. Same reason i check for loose steering etc in mine and families vehicles

    #366044
    redwood
    Pro

    What happened was tragic, i’m not trying to take anything away from the horrible losses they suffered, especially being family. All i meant was it’s important to be aware of what happens around us in life, and not be so dependant on inspectors and others to keep us safe, because they’re not always there, or they make mistakes. I’m thinking that deck probably felt shaky, maybe for a while, who knows, and if someone there was more tuned in what was going on with the deck, their survival instincts, might have prevented the tragedy, especially being such a high deck. Maybe it gave no signs, i don’t know, i’m just saying we need to live life being aware of our surroundings and look for danger, especially for our families, don’t depend on others to do it for us. Same reason i check for loose steering etc in mine and families vehicles

    I agree with you to a point Garry, but I’m not the type to be looking over my shoulder, but I understand what you are saying. This is a true story where I was involved, which kind of illustrates your point. When I was way younger, I was at a party and there was a 2nd story deck with lot’s of people on it. I looked and felt the railing and I told everyone in ear shot that it wasn’t safe. I went inside and not more then 5 min. later, that railing failed and around 4 people fell from that 2nd story deck. Luckily they landed on dirt and one guy broke his arm, but no other serious injuries. Now I have a structural engineering degree and have been a contractor for 40+ years and I check out pretty much every structure I encounter. Sometimes just for curiosity.

    Mark E.

    Pioneer, CA

    Working Pro 1972 - 2015
    Member since Jan 22, 2013
    www.creative-redwood-designs.com

    #366064
    gomoto69
    Pro
    salmon arm, bc

    Wow, good story! Happy to hear the outcome wasn’t any worse. I’m not pointing fingers either, and i may not have noticed anything wrong with that deck, or saved the day by keeping everyone off it, hindsight is 20-20, just another reminder in life to stay aware. I tend to notice mechanical and automotive things more, pickups with a ladder ready to fly out, tires shaking, backed way off from a truck the other day that sounded like metal on metal ready to let go of something, i don’t think i’m paranoid and i don’t take meds! Just try to be aware, same senses that kept cave man alive!

    #366095
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    I have very little but will give some for these kids in Berkley.
    Please Read:::::::::::

    Berkeley J1 Irish Student Appeal

    Aloha Fund established to assist families of Irish students killed in Berkeley tragedy HONOLULU, HAWAII—

    A fund has been established in Hawaii to assist the families of six Irish students who died after a fourth-floor balcony collapsed at an apartment building in Berkeley, California. All of the students were in America for the summer on J1 educational visas.
    The Berkeley J1 Student Tragedy Aloha Fund is administered by The Society of The Friends of St. Patrick Hawaii, an organization formed in Hawaii in 1955 to provide assistance to Irish immigrants, native Irish and those of Irish descent. Information can be found at fosphawaii.ning.com. “This is a tragedy that touches us all,” said Noel Trainor, honorary Irish counsel to Hawaii. “The funds we raise will assist the immediate needs of the students and their families, who must now cope with the loss of their children in a place far from home.”

    The Society of the Friends of Saint Patrick chairman Bill Comerford said “In a week full of tragedies and sad headlines we Irish of Hawaii, are particularly sympathetic to these families facing such sad losses so far from home. We wish to aid those who face this tragic circumstance and ask those of like feelings to join us by extending a hand of aloha.”
    “We ask that you keep the victims and their families in your thoughts and prayers,” Trainor said.

    Contributions to the fund may be made in three ways:
    · Visit any branch of American Savings Bank and deposit a check made payable to the Friends of Saint Patrick with a memo line Berkeley J1 Aloha Fund to Account # 81028 32968
    · Mail a check to The Friends of St. Patrick, PO Box 2178, Honolulu, HI, 96805. The check should be made out to The Friends of St. Patrick and should include Berkeley J1 Aloha Fund in the memo line.
    · Contributions may also be made online by visiting http://www.gofundme.com/J1tragedyfund.
    Any contribution big or small is gladly accepted
    Mahalo,
    Bill

    Bill Comerford
    Chairman of the Board of Directors
    and Promotions Chairman
    Friends of Saint Patrick
    PO Box 2178
    Honolulu, HI 96805
    808-223-3997
    bill.fosp@ejlounge.com ::::::::

    Bill is my friend and owns the 4 Irish bars here in Honolulu. He is a very kind gentleman and does tons for the Irish community here.

    #366191
    svensshutters
    Pro
    Colorado Springs, CO

    Wow, just found this thread, what a read. So sad that property managers don’t do more inspections on their properties to ensure their tenants safety. Sounds like Mark could pick up a nice little side job hobbie as a deck consultant for commercial and residential properties in Cali.

    #366213
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    Sounds like Mark could pick up a nice little side job hobbie as a deck consultant for commercial and residential properties in Cali.

    Or a deck inspector.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    #366256
    ChadM
    Moderator
    Rogers, Ohio

    I have very little but will give some for these kids in Berkley.
    Please Read:::::::::::

    Berkeley J1 Irish Student Appeal

    Aloha Fund established to assist families of Irish students killed in Berkeley tragedy HONOLULU, HAWAII—

    A fund has been established in Hawaii to assist the families of six Irish students who died after a fourth-floor balcony collapsed at an apartment building in Berkeley, California. All of the students were in America for the summer on J1 educational visas.
    The Berkeley J1 Student Tragedy Aloha Fund is administered by The Society of The Friends of St. Patrick Hawaii, an organization formed in Hawaii in 1955 to provide assistance to Irish immigrants, native Irish and those of Irish descent. Information can be found at fosphawaii.ning.com. “This is a tragedy that touches us all,” said Noel Trainor, honorary Irish counsel to Hawaii. “The funds we raise will assist the immediate needs of the students and their families, who must now cope with the loss of their children in a place far from home.”

    The Society of the Friends of Saint Patrick chairman Bill Comerford said “In a week full of tragedies and sad headlines we Irish of Hawaii, are particularly sympathetic to these families facing such sad losses so far from home. We wish to aid those who face this tragic circumstance and ask those of like feelings to join us by extending a hand of aloha.”
    “We ask that you keep the victims and their families in your thoughts and prayers,” Trainor said.

    Contributions to the fund may be made in three ways:
    · Visit any branch of American Savings Bank and deposit a check made payable to the Friends of Saint Patrick with a memo line Berkeley J1 Aloha Fund to Account # 81028 32968
    · Mail a check to The Friends of St. Patrick, PO Box 2178, Honolulu, HI, 96805. The check should be made out to The Friends of St. Patrick and should include Berkeley J1 Aloha Fund in the memo line.
    · Contributions may also be made online by visiting http://www.gofundme.com/J1tragedyfund.
    Any contribution big or small is gladly accepted
    Mahalo,
    Bill

    Bill Comerford
    Chairman of the Board of Directors
    and Promotions Chairman
    Friends of Saint Patrick
    PO Box 2178
    Honolulu, HI 96805
    808-223-3997
    bill.fosp@ejlounge.com ::::::::

    Bill is my friend and owns the 4 Irish bars here in Honolulu. He is a very kind gentleman and does tons for the Irish community here.

    GoFundMe donation made. I know several people that are huge supporters of anything Irish and I passed the info on to them too. Thanks for putting that link up Dirty.

    I check out pretty much every structure I encounter.

    I do the same thing – the wife and I have been to a couple parties at friends houses and we hung out in the yard because I didn’t feel the deck was safe. I don’t even think about it anymore but I inspect every building I walk into lol.

    Chad

    A Working Pro since 1993

    Member since 12/07/2013

    #366682
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    GoFundMe donation made. I know several people that are huge supporters of anything Irish and I passed the info on to them too. Thanks for putting that link up Dirty.

    Right on Chad. I know this forum only touches a few but I had to drop it, it seemed this thread was a fitting place to land it.

    #367764
    EthanB
    Pro
    South Kingstown, RI

    Cantilevered balconies seem like a really good place to use LGS. Proper waterproofing is still essential, of course, but it reduces the likelihood of failure due to rot and pests.

    Do most of you guys have separate framing and vapor barrier inspections in your jurisdictions? I called in a VB inspection, per the towns list of inspections, and the clerk was actually confused. She said they don’t usually do them but the inspector was actually happy I called about it.

    Edit: My bad, was reading page one and responding so it seems a little out of sync.

    #469545
    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Moderator
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    Here is a link to a good talk on deck failures and details. It is a little dry until the 7:00 minute mark, but they do simulate a deck ledger attachment failure which is very similar to what we have seen before.
    http://www.deckmagazine.com/videos/detail/pdb-2015-11-6-deck-safety-collapse/2209179?utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=jump&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Test%20-%20PDB_020916B%20(2)&he=

    #469618
    BeardedCarpenter
    Pro
    Winsted, CT

    Here is a link to a good talk on deck failures and details. It is a little dry until the 7:00 minute mark, but they do simulate a deck ledger attachment failure which is very similar to what we have seen before.
    http://www.deckmagazine.com/videos/detail/pdb-2015-11-6-deck-safety-collapse/2209179?utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=jump&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Test%20-%20PDB_020916B%20(2)&he=

    That guy in the video does those presentations all over the place. I saw him at JLC Live in Providence RI last year.

    #469680
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    That was kind of painful to watch.

    That guy in the video does those presentations all over the place. I saw him at JLC Live in Providence RI last year.

    Are all of his presentations so dry and boring?

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #469691
    cranbrook2
    Pro
    Belgrave, Ontario , Canada

    I’m still waiting to here about that big deck collapse that happened about a year and a half ago with the large pile of people that went down with a deck including a little baby .

    #469753
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    That was kind of painful to watch.

    Well I guess it’s nice I couldn’t get it to play.

    #484713
    kurt@welkerhomes.com
    Moderator
    Owatonna, MN - Minnesota

    Another deck collapse in MD. this was several months ago but I had not seen it yet. The official cause is slated as water damage, but from what I can see, the underlying cause is no flashing and nails instead of bolts or lags holding the deck ledger to the home. Watch the video and they have good images of the attachment.

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/07/22/5-injured-in-deck-collapse-in-columbia/

    #484805

    Another deck collapse in MD. this was several months ago but I had not seen it yet. The official cause is slated as water damage, but from what I can see, the underlying cause is no flashing and nails instead of bolts or lags holding the deck ledger to the home. Watch the video and they have good images of the attachment.

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/07/22/5-injured-in-deck-collapse-in-columbia/

    For sure a water problem . Flashing seems to be not there . Also noticed that the neighbors decks appear to have new supports under them . I wonder if they were told about some movement from neighbors and decided to do nothin .

    Always willing to learn .

    #485186
    DirtyWhiteBoy
    Pro
    Honolulu,, Hi.

    Well someones gonna have a lot of work fixing all those decks.

    #485248
    theamcguy
    Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

    Wow you’d figure people would read up on decks before installing one. Nails holding the ledger and no flashing. That is just basic stuff being ignored.

    Automotive Pro
    Fayetteville, NC

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