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Another deck went down. This one in NC. One entire section of joists and decking just dropped out resulting in multiple injuries. One news station said inspectors blamed the collapse on deterioration of nails. Looking at some of the pictures online the joists were just butted and through nailed, not even hangers, and lots of rust streaks. I wouldn’t be surprised if common nails were used. Sad to think the only thing holding that deck up was some nails.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=NC+Deck+Collapse&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=FBE4EB6583067701A1D9FBE4EB6583067701A1D9Wow, it become common to see posts here at BTP on decks collapsing. I never knew it happened this much.
A Working Pro since 2004
Wow, it become common to see posts here at BTP on decks collapsing. I never knew it happened this much.
Considering how many decks are out there, the odds aren’t that great to have a deck collapse under you. But yes, they do happen.
Unlike the floors of a house, a deck’s floor and walls are directly exposed to the elements. One stupid mistake, or poor detail is amplified on decks.
Mark E.
Pioneer, CA
Working Pro 1972 - 2015
Member since Jan 22, 2013
www.creative-redwood-designs.comSickening events and, based on the investigation, I’m wondering if there will be changes to the code, with regards to how these structures are built and inspected in the future. The article seems to infer that the balcony wasn’t built to minimum code. The contractor, and inspector who passed the project as up to code, must be bricking it at the moment.
It will be interesting to see if they discover any flaws in the other balconies. There is going to be a lot riding on the continued investigations.
I’m wondering if there will be changes to the code, with regards to how these structures are built and inspected in the future. The article seems to infer that the balcony wasn’t built to minimum code
I don’t know when this deck was built, but for the longest time, there was essentially no code for decks. Decks followed what was allowed for house framing. As I mentioned before, that is a no no.
None of those older balconies will meet current code and I doubt that anyone can force the owners to bring it to current code. If it is shown to be in a current hazardous condition, they can possibly red tag it.
There is also the fact that a some jurisdictions that don’t even require permits for decks.
Mark E.
Pioneer, CA
Working Pro 1972 - 2015
Member since Jan 22, 2013
www.creative-redwood-designs.comThanks for the explanation Mark……it’s criminal to think that we’ll have to wait for another headline story like this one before anything is done – but as you say, what can they do? This is where government needs to step in to ensure that minimum code standards are in place in all jurisdictions, and protect the safety of the tenants. The law makers need to do their jobs. Stiff penalties for those who choose to ignore them might help eradicate these types of incidents in the future.
The very nature of the structure (hanging off the side of a high rise), and the almost certain inevitability of death if it fails, should make it mandatory to have the older decks/balconies inspected and brought up to the current code.
I’m wondering if there will be changes to the code, with regards to how these structures are built and inspected in the future. The article seems to infer that the balcony wasn’t built to minimum code
I don’t know when this deck was built, but for the longest time, there was essentially no code for decks. Decks followed what was allowed for house framing. As I mentioned before, that is a no no.
None of those older balconies will meet current code and I doubt that anyone can force the owners to bring it to current code. If it is shown to be in a current hazardous condition, they can possibly red tag it.
There is also the fact that a some jurisdictions that don’t even require permits for decks.
The very nature of the structure (hanging off the side of a high rise), and the almost certain inevitability of death if it fails, should make it mandatory to have the older decks/balconies inspected and brought up to the current code.
Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen. As a analogy, say someone is killed in a house fire, they might have been saved if there had been sprinklers. Today, in my neck of the woods, and a lot of areas I think, sprinklers are now required. What would happen if the gov’t decided every home should now have sprinklers? Not going to happen.
The codes change every year, and the code is considered the minimum. You just cannot expect everyone to keep their structures up to code. The costs to upgrade would be prohibitive, if even possible in some cases.
Mark E.
Pioneer, CA
Working Pro 1972 - 2015
Member since Jan 22, 2013
www.creative-redwood-designs.comWell said Mark. A deck doesn’t have to meet every criteria of current code to be safe, there are some basics that do not change much and a lot of new code simply allow for new materials and/or practices. No matter how well a deck is built it needs to be inspected periodical for safety problems, this isn’t something that most people or property do though.
Decks are also something that gets flown under the radar a lot. Most decks are built in back yards where they aren’t readily visible to curious eyes so some people simply build them and never bother with a permit. Another good point that Mark was about code being the minimum standards that something should be built to, not a lofty goal that you should strive to achieve, sadly this practice isn’t followed by everyone.
Chad
A Working Pro since 1993
Member since 12/07/2013Thanks for the explanation Mark……it’s criminal to think that we’ll have to wait for another headline story like this one before anything is done – but as you say, what can they do? This is where government needs to step in to ensure that minimum code standards are in place in all jurisdictions, and protect the safety of the tenants. The law makers need to do their jobs. Stiff penalties for those who choose to ignore them might help eradicate these types of incidents in the future.
Someone owns the thing, so I’d say they are liable. While the government needs to step in, that’s more of a global solution and for the benefit of future people dealing with new construction and potential issues. Unfortunately, lawsuits are the only recourse here unless it’s found that someone has cut corners and it can be proven.
Jon P.
Timber Carpentry & Construction
https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
InstagramAnother deck went down. This one in NC. One entire section of joists and decking just dropped out resulting in multiple injuries. One news station said inspectors blamed the collapse on deterioration of nails. Looking at some of the pictures online the joists were just butted and through nailed, not even hangers, and lots of rust streaks. I wouldn’t be surprised if common nails were used. Sad to think the only thing holding that deck up was some nails.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=NC+Deck+Collapse&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=FBE4EB6583067701A1D9FBE4EB6583067701A1D9Heard about this one on the radio couple days ago. I think a family wanted to take a group picture on the deck. Some fell more than 10 feet.
BryanT
There is no doubt that many decks were built incorrectly to begin with, but it’s amazing to me that all of the commentary is about construction and nobody mentions that the owners failed to maintain the aging structure or that way too many people were congregated in a small area. If I put 3000# on my wife’s Ford Focus, it would probably collapse too.
If I put 3000# on my wife’s Ford Focus, it would probably collapse too.
It would at least lose it’s focus.
I think people don’t realize how quickly the weight adds up with a group of people, like you say, 3000lbs is only a group of 20 people, add in a good size deck and a good party could double that pretty easily. And decks are completely exposed to the weather, cut a few corners or some low grade materials equals disaster. I’ve been in hotels as well where the railing is wobbly, concrete is cracked, and i don’t stay out there for long! Most people put too much blind faith in things these days, and don’t use their survival instincts enough, i’ll bet that deck felt wobbly, and as construction people we probably would have noticed something was wrong just by how it felt to walk on, but most people don’t
I think people don’t realize how quickly the weight adds up with a group of people, like you say, 3000lbs is only a group of 20 people, add in a good size deck and a good party could double that pretty easily. And decks are completely exposed to the weather, cut a few corners or some low grade materials equals disaster. I’ve been in hotels as well where the railing is wobbly, concrete is cracked, and i don’t stay out there for long! Most people put too much blind faith in things these days, and don’t use their survival instincts enough, i’ll bet that deck felt wobbly, and as construction people we probably would have noticed something was wrong just by how it felt to walk on, but most people don’t
So very true. Especially in groups, everybody seems to have “follow the crowd” mentality.
BryanT
A properly built deck in decent shape will carry the load of a crowd. That’s what they are designed for. It would take people packed like sardines to exceed the design load, which also has other factors built in.
Decks fail because of bad workmanship or bad maintenance, not too many people.
Mark E.
Pioneer, CA
Working Pro 1972 - 2015
Member since Jan 22, 2013
www.creative-redwood-designs.comOver the fourth we had a BBQ party . It was at my aunts home she just bought . Deck is about 20 years old . It give way on one side of deck about 2″ down . Only thing was 6 nails attached to home on a 4×4 post . The home inspection guy must of over looked it . Size of deck 15×25 PT .
Always willing to learn .
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