dcsimg

4100 Dust Control Modifications

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 76 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #439523
    thedude306
    Moderator
    Foam Lake, SK

    Looking good. The above guard DC works well on my saw but the lever for it hits the fence on tight cuts.

    Brad T
    Self employed Pro since 2014!!

    #439782

    @jponto07

    Went around a Target and found both rolls of shelf liner when I was searching for rubberized cloth (Like the kind for lining baby cribs), they’re specificially these: (On Amazon/online anyways, since I had a hard time finding the black type)
    Con-Tact Brand Industrial Solid Grip Non-Adhesive Non-Slip Shelf and Drawer Liner, 18-Inches by 4-Feet, Dimples Black
    Con-Tact Premium Ribbed Shelf Liner, 18″ x 15′ Roll, Clear

    The latter I used for the sliding section and I’m questioning if I want the stuff in the back by the dust port.

    I was holding off on making any modifications since I was looking for this material, but when I get a chance I’m most likely going to re-implement the shroud so it’ll eliminate a lot of the areas that dust spews out from right now.



    @58Chev

    I throw in a hour-ish here and there when I get the chance since I’d rather modify the tablesaw to not create a sawdust pile on the floor with the vacuum running than to clean up every time.



    @thedude306

    What I’m thinking about for the guard is I could probably end up making something thinner and have just a simple bolt and knob hold it in place. But I don’t like the NAINA guard since it lets dust escape on the sides. Looking at some of the guards people have made with sliding side sections and front brush elements, I think those will do a way better job of capturing dust even if were to rip tall sections of lumber.

    #461999
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    I just saw this update…thanks Reflector. I’m still debating on whether or not to spend the money on the Saw Stache material. I keep thinking that there has to be something that won’t cost $50+ to improve the dust issue.

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #493457
    Kamster
    Pro

    Thanks to Reflector for his continued work on the dust collection modifications.

    Using his idea to build a shroud around the entire blade housing, I went looking for the shelf liner material that Reflector had used but could only find this at the local Canadian Tire store

    Contact Brand – Grip Premium Liner – 04F-C6U51-01 (Black)

    Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot and Rona don’t have this type of shelf liner in Canada. It feels like foam and its about 2mm thick. RONA does have a much thicker, heavier material that is made out of rubber but without the needed flexibility to form fit easily around the shroud

    Because the “grip Premium Liner” is very flexible I was able to change the attachment point of the material on the saw. It looks like Reflector had the material on his shroud attached to the inner, lower section of the Bosch shroud on his original modifications (its the piece that surrounds the lower section of the saw blade). He suggested moving the shroud to the outside

    Using 1/2 inch Fast Cap double sided tape, I attached the liner material to the entire Bosch shroud (wrapped it around the front, side and rear) and attached it to the underside of the table top.

    On the underside of the table top, there is a narrow channel that follows the length of the throat opening. I put the double sided tape along the floor of this channel and the wall that is closest to the throat opening. There is also a smaller channel at the front and rear that you can also put the tape into.

    I think that I used a piece of liner that was 6 1/2 inches wide and long enough to wrap the entire distance around the open side of the throat. I got lucky and width of the material straight off the roll was enough to enclose the throat. I attached the lower section of the liner material to the Bosch shroud using more of the double sided tape. I used 2 rows of the Fast Cap tape and it seems to be holding fine through repeated raising and lowering of the blade.

    Because there is enough extra liner material vertically, I can still tilt the blade through its whole range without losing the dust collecting capabilities. You don’t want to pull the liner taut – there has to be enough slack to form a small pouch when the blade is at 0* (vertical)

    It was late when I was working on these mods in the garage so I only had enough guts to do 3 test cuts on cedar. I’m sure the saw + vac running for much longer would have had neighours looking around for the noise culprit. There wasn’t a lot of dust being thrown up from the blade through the throat plate. In the past, I’ve had a lot on the saw’s table top. I’m going to try more rip cuts on longer pieces to see if the mods hold up

    Next set of mods will be to add change the base to thicker 1/2 inch plywood and to add foam weather stripping to the base of the saw to seal off the lower section of the saw

    Thanks again to @Reflector for all of his testing on the dust control modifications. They were a huge help

    #493465

    I really like what you did there @Kamster . It looks like it would do the job real well .

    Always willing to learn .

    #493564

    @Kamster

    Nice job with the liner, there’s a few more things you can do from what I see. They would let you get away without even sealing the bottom, unless you mind the tiny amount that bypasses through the bottom. I’ll upload an image of the “front” (Where the teeth of the blade are coming down) with your photo as well.

    If you use double sided tape underneath the table and “wrap around” a short piece towards the front, it’ll prevent sawdust from escaping from the front and getting all over the internal ledge.

    I did this for my latest modification where the front side of the shroud has pieces extending off the top (From the table) and as well as on the back side to reduce the amount of rooster tailing from dust coming up.

    Ignore the tube in my photo, that’s a “special” modification I made that I really don’t recommend unless you really, really want to do it. It directs suction towards the front where the cut is being made, similar to what Mafell did with the shroud for the MT55cc. I plan on making a ZCI that pulls some air in from the top of the plate using that, which should help a little with overhead cuts where the left side of the cut does not have wood helping channel the dust down. PM me if think you’re willing to make that kind of a modification.

    I have some more stuff to upload regarding the modifications I’ve done for later.

    Attachments:
    #493574

    A little update as to the right side of the shroud:

    I’ve removed my original shrouding that would pinch when the blade is tilted and replaced it with a long sheet that allows me to drape it over the bar that is part of the fence extension mechanism. It will slide when the lever for the fence extension is operated and reduce slack.

    I’ve also added pieces of shelf liner attached to the tabletop instead of just on the saw blade shroud, so they both converge together. There are gaps now because I had to accommodate for the blade tilt and I plan on refining what I’ve done with the smaller pieces that overlap.

    Edit:
    A remark for anyone considering these modifications: What @kamster did with the piece on the right is a better approach than what I did with my long piece. Mine relies on the weight and the fence extension bar. Using double sided tape to attach it to the bottom of the table would allow for better sealing and that means better airflow inside the shroud since the right side would be sealed. That would only leave the large motor gap and any other gaps for air to flow into the blade shroud and that reduces dust from escaping.

    Attachments:
    #493625
    Kamster
    Pro

    @Kamster

    Nice job with the liner, there’s a few more things you can do from what I see. They would let you get away without even sealing the bottom, unless you mind the tiny amount that bypasses through the bottom. I’ll upload an image of the “front” (Where the teeth of the blade are coming down) with your photo as well.

    If you use double sided tape underneath the table and “wrap around” a short piece towards the front, it’ll prevent sawdust from escaping from the front and getting all over the internal ledge.

    I did this for my latest modification where the front side of the shroud has pieces extending off the top (From the table) and as well as on the back side to reduce the amount of rooster tailing from dust coming up.

    Ignore the tube in my photo, that’s a “special” modification I made that I really don’t recommend unless you really, really want to do it. It directs suction towards the front where the cut is being made, similar to what Mafell did with the shroud for the MT55cc. I plan on making a ZCI that pulls some air in from the top of the plate using that, which should help a little with overhead cuts where the left side of the cut does not have wood helping channel the dust down. PM me if think you’re willing to make that kind of a modification.

    I have some more stuff to upload regarding the modifications I’ve done for later.

    I am getting a small amount of dust on the front, bottom edge of the saw below where the crank handle is located. I had taken the sawstache off the front so I was thinking that opening was the source of the dust. I can see how your suggestion will help with this.

    The plastic Bosch ZCI plate with the FastCap miter tape has been helpful as I’m not getting a plume of dust shooting out. I took the steel Bosch plate that is standard with the saw and added the orange Fastcap miter saw tape to make another ZCI plate. Since this orange tape is narrower than the 4 inch tape I used on the plastic Bosch plate, the finger hole is still open and at the back where the riving plate comes out is still open. I think that this helps with air flow down (?)

    I rip cut a scrap 2″x4″ that was 3 feet long and then cross cut 10 pieces off the end of a 1″x4″. Because the shroud is not totally sealing the blade on the right side and I don’t have anything closing off the left side where there is an opening for the motor, a small amount of dust has fallen to the bottom of the saw and collected on the plywood. Since I have the Sawstache on the rear opening where the vacuum tube comes out, I can still get the shop vac hose inside to clear out any saw dust.

    #493631
    Kamster
    Pro

    A little update as to the right side of the shroud:

    I’ve removed my original shrouding that would pinch when the blade is tilted and replaced it with a long sheet that allows me to drape it over the bar that is part of the fence extension mechanism. It will slide when the lever for the fence extension is operated and reduce slack.

    I’ve also added pieces of shelf liner attached to the tabletop instead of just on the saw blade shroud, so they both converge together. There are gaps now because I had to accommodate for the blade tilt and I plan on refining what I’ve done with the smaller pieces that overlap.

    Edit:
    A remark for anyone considering these modifications: What @kamster did with the piece on the right is a better approach than what I did with my long piece. Mine relies on the weight and the fence extension bar. Using double sided tape to attach it to the bottom of the table would allow for better sealing and that means better airflow inside the shroud since the right side would be sealed. That would only leave the large motor gap and any other gaps for air to flow into the blade shroud and that reduces dust from escaping.

    The motor mount area is a tough one to seal off. From the small amount of dust that fell to the plywood base inside my saw, I may end up leaving the left side alone for a while. I wonder if strips of the liner attached to the bottom of the table with double sided tape will work? Just long enough to touch the motor and stiff enough to not get sucked in toward the spinning blade

    The more double sided tape that you add to the right side of the shroud the better when you add the liner. I can see one spot where the liner has been pulled away from the shroud and I am going to have go back and redo the tape.

    #493648
    jponto07
    Moderator
    Bloomington, IN

    Nice work Kamster. I added some shelf liner material in exactly the same place you did recently. I find that it helps quite a bit, but I still need further modifications.

    What’s up with the 80 tooth blade? Not quite what I’d use on a table saw!

    Jon P.
    Timber Carpentry & Construction
    https://www.facebook.com/timbercarpentry/
    Instagram

    #493649

    @Kamster

    Nice job with the liner, there’s a few more things you can do from what I see. They would let you get away without even sealing the bottom, unless you mind the tiny amount that bypasses through the bottom. I’ll upload an image of the “front” (Where the teeth of the blade are coming down) with your photo as well.

    If you use double sided tape underneath the table and “wrap around” a short piece towards the front, it’ll prevent sawdust from escaping from the front and getting all over the internal ledge.

    I did this for my latest modification where the front side of the shroud has pieces extending off the top (From the table) and as well as on the back side to reduce the amount of rooster tailing from dust coming up.

    Ignore the tube in my photo, that’s a “special” modification I made that I really don’t recommend unless you really, really want to do it. It directs suction towards the front where the cut is being made, similar to what Mafell did with the shroud for the MT55cc. I plan on making a ZCI that pulls some air in from the top of the plate using that, which should help a little with overhead cuts where the left side of the cut does not have wood helping channel the dust down. PM me if think you’re willing to make that kind of a modification.

    I have some more stuff to upload regarding the modifications I’ve done for later.

    I am getting a small amount of dust on the front, bottom edge of the saw below where the crank handle is located. I had taken the sawstache off the front so I was thinking that opening was the source of the dust. I can see how your suggestion will help with this.

    The plastic Bosch ZCI plate with the FastCap miter tape has been helpful as I’m not getting a plume of dust shooting out. I took the steel Bosch plate that is standard with the saw and added the orange Fastcap miter saw tape to make another ZCI plate. Since this orange tape is narrower than the 4 inch tape I used on the plastic Bosch plate, the finger hole is still open and at the back where the riving plate comes out is still open. I think that this helps with air flow down (?)

    I rip cut a scrap 2″x4″ that was 3 feet long and then cross cut 10 pieces off the end of a 1″x4″. Because the shroud is not totally sealing the blade on the right side and I don’t have anything closing off the left side where there is an opening for the motor, a small amount of dust has fallen to the bottom of the saw and collected on the plywood. Since I have the Sawstache on the rear opening where the vacuum tube comes out, I can still get the shop vac hose inside to clear out any saw dust.

    What I found originally with the first modifications was because I sealed it from the bottom up, dust could still “float over” (Technically it’d be blasted out more than floating out) the top edge, especially if the liner wasn’t pressing against the table. Having it the way it is right now means it doesn’t really float over, it’ll hit the top piece first, deflect downwards and hit the bottom piece.

    One of the modifications I am considering, with my ducting to redirect airflow, is to make ZCIs with a piece of wood glued below. That should help redirect the sawdust so it’ll actually make it all the way down into the ducting instead of immediately scattering once it makes it beneath the thin plastic ZCI. If you look at your ZCI, I am sure you’ll see the pattern from the dust being ejected. From what I found, I don’t get anything coming out the front of my saw where the miter is at this point.

    The left side where the motor is doesn’t have to be super sealed. I’ll attach a photo showing another modification I did. Using the thin translucent liner to help obstruct some of the left where it acts like a way cover helped significantly. I find that if I put my hand over the motor and wipe, I don’t really have dust on it. See the image I attached for another potential seal. Because of what I am limited to do to seal the motor I added another piece of liner in a “floating” configuration (It’ll just move out of the way when the motor comes up) that helps reduce some of the airflow from the front.

    I recommend for you to try sealing more of the table to the shroud before considering the plywood base option. With my previous modifications, the only place where there was dust leaking was a little ontop of the motor (Negible, I could rip 4′ pieces of underlayment) and mostly on the front where the original modifications didn’t have the piece deflecting from the front. Effectively all the dust on the floor was from the top of the table. That was a bigger issue for me when I was ripping a piece down where I wouldn’t have an offcut on the left side, that’s where most of my dust comes from now.

    Also attached are images of a Dewalt table saw I found they had a better sealing strategy than the 4100, with proper shrouding on the sides where the motor and gap are for the tilt. It doesn’t have much sealing on the front and back when I looked at it.

    #493654

    A little update as to the right side of the shroud:

    I’ve removed my original shrouding that would pinch when the blade is tilted and replaced it with a long sheet that allows me to drape it over the bar that is part of the fence extension mechanism. It will slide when the lever for the fence extension is operated and reduce slack.

    I’ve also added pieces of shelf liner attached to the tabletop instead of just on the saw blade shroud, so they both converge together. There are gaps now because I had to accommodate for the blade tilt and I plan on refining what I’ve done with the smaller pieces that overlap.

    Edit:
    A remark for anyone considering these modifications: What @kamster did with the piece on the right is a better approach than what I did with my long piece. Mine relies on the weight and the fence extension bar. Using double sided tape to attach it to the bottom of the table would allow for better sealing and that means better airflow inside the shroud since the right side would be sealed. That would only leave the large motor gap and any other gaps for air to flow into the blade shroud and that reduces dust from escaping.

    The motor mount area is a tough one to seal off. From the small amount of dust that fell to the plywood base inside my saw, I may end up leaving the left side alone for a while. I wonder if strips of the liner attached to the bottom of the table with double sided tape will work? Just long enough to touch the motor and stiff enough to not get sucked in toward the spinning blade

    The more double sided tape that you add to the right side of the shroud the better when you add the liner. I can see one spot where the liner has been pulled away from the shroud and I am going to have go back and redo the tape.

    Regarding the left side of the motor mount, try what I did here with the translucent adhesive doorstrips. Mind the underlayment tape, I use that to seal the gaps where dust can go. Again, here are my posts on what I did to reduce the gap on the left. I find that it works more than sufficiently.

    http://bethepro.com/forums/topic/4100-dust-control-modifications/#post-424927 (Later photos)
    http://bethepro.com/forums/topic/4100-dust-control-modifications/#post-439256 (Video is the best example)

    I find that the sliding piece of liner that rolls out of the way doesn’t have a chance of being pulled into the blade.

    Also I recommend also using aluminum foil tape on the right side to reinforce the double sided tape. If you put some on the inside of the plastic shroud and outside, you’ll have 3 surfaces adhered. Aluminum foil tape works particularly well if you want the shelf liner to have a little more rigidity. I use aluminum foil tape in places where there’s significant amounts of dust being ejected with force to help prevent abrasion of the liner.

    #493678
    Kamster
    Pro

    A little update as to the right side of the shroud:

    I’ve removed my original shrouding that would pinch when the blade is tilted and replaced it with a long sheet that allows me to drape it over the bar that is part of the fence extension mechanism. It will slide when the lever for the fence extension is operated and reduce slack.

    I’ve also added pieces of shelf liner attached to the tabletop instead of just on the saw blade shroud, so they both converge together. There are gaps now because I had to accommodate for the blade tilt and I plan on refining what I’ve done with the smaller pieces that overlap.

    Edit:
    A remark for anyone considering these modifications: What @kamster did with the piece on the right is a better approach than what I did with my long piece. Mine relies on the weight and the fence extension bar. Using double sided tape to attach it to the bottom of the table would allow for better sealing and that means better airflow inside the shroud since the right side would be sealed. That would only leave the large motor gap and any other gaps for air to flow into the blade shroud and that reduces dust from escaping.

    The motor mount area is a tough one to seal off. From the small amount of dust that fell to the plywood base inside my saw, I may end up leaving the left side alone for a while. I wonder if strips of the liner attached to the bottom of the table with double sided tape will work? Just long enough to touch the motor and stiff enough to not get sucked in toward the spinning blade

    The more double sided tape that you add to the right side of the shroud the better when you add the liner. I can see one spot where the liner has been pulled away from the shroud and I am going to have go back and redo the tape.

    Regarding the left side of the motor mount, try what I did here with the translucent adhesive doorstrips. Mind the underlayment tape, I use that to seal the gaps where dust can go. Again, here are my posts on what I did to reduce the gap on the left. I find that it works more than sufficiently.

    http://bethepro.com/forums/topic/4100-dust-control-modifications/#post-424927 (Later photos)
    http://bethepro.com/forums/topic/4100-dust-control-modifications/#post-439256 (Video is the best example)

    I find that the sliding piece of liner that rolls out of the way doesn’t have a chance of being pulled into the blade.

    Also I recommend also using aluminum foil tape on the right side to reinforce the double sided tape. If you put some on the inside of the plastic shroud and outside, you’ll have 3 surfaces adhered. Aluminum foil tape works particularly well if you want the shelf liner to have a little more rigidity. I use aluminum foil tape in places where there’s significant amounts of dust being ejected with force to help prevent abrasion of the liner.

    Just tried the aluminum tape sealing the liner to the inside part of the plastic shroud. Works beautifully! Thanks for the tip.

    #493917
    Austin
    Pro
    Covington, KY

    I definitely want to do something like this, and thats the best one I have seen. I am tired of the saw getting stuck because of all the saw dust.

    #493951
    Kamster
    Pro

    It’s not a huge time commitment to make these mods and the reduction in the amount of dust coming out of the saw is excellent. The challenging part for me was to find the right type of shelf liner. Flexible and without too much patterning in the surface so that double sided tape will adhere to it.

    I have a plywood base under the saw and I think that Reflector has his open. I dislike sweeping up dust on the floor so with the base I can use the shop vacuum to clean the inside pretty quickly. I used to have a 4 inch port in the base to attach a vac but with these shroud mods it doesn’t look necessary anymore. I need to run more wood through the saw to test this out.

    Other than that, I think that the only thing left to do is to modify the zero clearance throat plate by trying some of Reflector’s suggestions

    #494753

    I’ll remark that these modifications really don’t take that much time. They’re basically tape and double sided tape with shelf liner. I think I spent more time actually implementing it the first time than the second time which is more complete. The first time was mostly trying to figure out how to attach it more than anything. Foam is pretty hard to remove from the underside of the saw and relatively “non reversible” (Within the limit of sanity).

    I keep the bottom of my 4100, I plan on doing more things with it, but with all the modifications in place the dust I see below the saw is actually the blowback from cuts hitting me and flying back down beneath the table ass of now.

    #594519

    Finished a quick prototype of the guard. It works great and I don’t get sprayed by dust coming off the sawblade now.

    For anyone who plans on making their own: You want to make one that freely drops at the end of a cut so it’ll capture the dust when the blade exits the wood. It helps if its also long so it can actually touch down on the table.

    I found that you can get good dust collection on cuts where one side of the blade is exposed. You just make a L shape with some scrap so it’ll block the side of the guard and the front (But keep like a 1/16th gap between the piece you’re cutting and the scrap) which prevents dust from straight out the front. Next time I’m making a miter bar piece that does that.

    Things I’ll definitely be doing in a proper version:
    Overhead arm attachment so it’ll collect dust at the end of cuts and not interfere with my Incra 1000HD with the knob I have in this design (For holding it up)
    Side wings that block up the sides

    Video shows the guard dropping down at an end of a “cut.”

    #594536
    58Chev
    Pro
    Etobicoke, ON

    Finished a quick prototype of the guard. It works great and I don’t get sprayed by dust coming off the sawblade now.

    For anyone who plans on making their own: You want to make one that freely drops at the end of a cut so it’ll capture the dust when the blade exits the wood. It helps if its also long so it can actually touch down on the table.

    Slowly capturing all the dust off the 4100. The over arm shield looks a bit bulky but if it does what your looking for, that’s great.

    I haven’t done any DC on my 4100 aside from hooking up my shop vac to the port on the back.

    “If you don’t pass on the knowledge you have to others, it Dies with you”
    — Glenn Botting

    #594656

    @58Chev

    The 4100 does poorly in capturing dust below the saw since it has huge gaping areas and the way the guard below is designed. That’s easily remedied to the point the 4100 won’t leave a pile of sawdust on the floor. Even with a shopvac most of the dust comes out from the front where there’s a gap between the housing and the table/throat plate.

    The overhead guard is a bit bulky but it isn’t annoying to work with. What I was aiming for was something thin enough to let me do rip cuts up to about 3/8ths from the fence or so. It gets annoying fast when you’re cleaning the edge of ACX and you have the dust stream coming off and impacting your finger as a stream of sharp splinters.

    #594657

    @58chev

    The 4100 does poorly in capturing dust below the saw since it has huge gaping areas and the way the guard below is designed. That’s easily remedied to the point the 4100 won’t leave a pile of sawdust on the floor. Even with a shopvac most of the dust comes out from the front where there’s a gap between the housing and the table/throat plate.

    The overhead guard is a bit bulky but it isn’t annoying to work with. What I was aiming for was something thin enough to let me do rip cuts up to about 3/8ths from the fence or so. It gets annoying fast when you’re cleaning the edge of ACX and you have the dust stream coming off and impacting your finger as a stream of sharp splinters.

    Why did you choose to go this route over buying the NAINA dust collection overarm guard that is designed for the saw?

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 76 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
© Robert Bosch Tool Corporation 2014, all rights reserved.
queries. 1.434 seconds