dcsimg

Red Guard or Hydroban For Waterproofing?

This topic contains 18 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Laina TenTanToes 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #17620
    Profile photo of mark
    mark
    Pro
    Jackson, TN

    Do you flooring guys prefer Red Guard or Hydroban to waterproof a shower? Why do you prefer one over the other? Everything I’ve read boils down to a personal preference, or what’s available in your area.

    Also, which substrate do you prefer to use behind that waterproofing agent on the shower walls? I just hope it it isn’t greenboard.

    I’d like to exclude the Schluter-Systems, because of the cost difference.

    #17632

    Their both outstanding products. I use Hydroban – it’s what I was taught and is locally available

    ~ Rob at http://www.ConcordCarpenter.com
    #17633

    Durock

    ~ Rob at http://www.ConcordCarpenter.com
    #17709
    Profile photo of Gregory
    rujpn2
    Pro

    I use Hydroban whenever I use a liquid membrane. The RedGaurd is too thin of a product, meaning it takes several coats to get the minimum thickness required by the manufacturer. You are using a wet film gauge to ensure you are getting enough on the wall? The Hydroban is a thicker product and because of this it feels easier to work with. I also like to use Mapelastic HPG liquid membrane too. It seems to be the thickest product that is available locally. It is thick enough I can flat trowel it on the wall and usually achieve proper thickness of the membrane in one coat.

    You say no to Schluter, because it’s too expensive. Are you looking at just the fabric cost or have you compared start to finish shower prep? I’ve found that if you factor in all of the time for prepping a liquid w/p shower and compare it to a Kerdi prep. I can usually be ready to tile a couple of days earlier with the Kerdi system than with the liquid w/p system.

    For instance, with a 3×4 new construction I can hang the wall board, hang the Kerdi on the walls and pull the mud in one day. Second day I start running tile on the wall using a ledger board. At the end of the day, I Kerdi the shower floor. Third day I finish tiling walls and floor. On the fourth day I grout and collect payment.

    With a liquid membrane, start hanging board from the ceiling down. Leave out bottom row of board in order to apply preslope mortar. Second day install pan liner, remainder of board, and apply first coat of waterproofing. Third day apply second coat of membrane and pull mud floor. Fourth and fifth day run tile. Sixth day grout and collect payment.

    I’m not sure how you price you work, but I do my estimate based on my labor cost for me and my helper, daily operating cost for the business and that evil P word (PROFIT). Of course, YMMV.

    #17710
    Profile photo of Gregory
    rujpn2
    Pro

    One more thing, for all liquid w/p showers, I use Durock. For my Kerdi Showers, I used drywall per Schlüter’s instructions.

    #17834
    Profile photo of mark
    mark
    Pro
    Jackson, TN

    Thanks for the input guys.

    Gregory,
    I was asking about Red Guard and Hydroban because of the price differences. It’s my understanding that Red Guard is thinner, but complete waterproofing requires 2-3 coats. Hydroban, on the other hand, costs 2-3 times the price of Red Guard, but only requires one application. Also, I omitted Kerdi due material costs only, to do a comparison between liquid membranes. Does Lowe’s sell the Mapelastic HPG you mentioned? The product name sounds familiar, but I may be mistaking it for something else.

    #18568
    Profile photo of Gregory
    rujpn2
    Pro

    I think Lowe’s only carries Mapei’s AquaDefense, which is a step up over the HPG. Cost is about the same as Red Gaurd in the one gallon containers, at least in my market. If you can find a local Mapei dealer, you should be able to get some.

    #37789
    Profile photo of Phil Green
    pgc555
    Pro
    Gilberts, Illinois

    Mark,
    Do you have a Menards by you? They have Mapei products locally here. Hydroban does require 2 coats to get the mil thickness. I love laticrete products and like hydroban . The light green color makes it easy to see if you have any voids.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Profile photo of Phil Green Phil Green.
    #42536

    I just completed a bathroom remodel and opted for the Kerdi — it worked fantastic and this was the first job I have done with it. Amazing stuff. I was originally going to use one of the liquids but after reading other forums and doing some research, it seems like the Kerdi system was the way to go.

    Orange County, CA
    #57496
    Profile photo of Ralph
    RalphS
    Pro

    Durock is ok but I’ve had outstanding performance and durability with Hardibacker. I will not use anything else. easy to score, no mess, and it’s lightweight.

    #57497
    Profile photo of Ralph
    RalphS
    Pro

    Red guard I feel is better for a solid gel waterproofing. I have done numerous showers and copper pans and I’ve always had great hold with it!

    #75795
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    i have used red guard on the last 5 jobs i did in 2013 and i love it . It seams that 2 coats work fine . 2 days before i tile i start preping i give each coat 24 hrs to dry before i tile and i have had no problems .

    #146258
    Profile photo of William
    Skillman
    Pro
    New York, NY

    Do you flooring guys prefer Red Guard or Hydroban to waterproof a shower? Why do you prefer one over the other? Everything I’ve read boils down to a personal preference, or what’s available in your area.

    Also, which substrate do you prefer to use behind that waterproofing agent on the shower walls? I just hope it it isn’t greenboard.

    I’d like to exclude the Schluter-Systems, because of the cost difference.

    I use durock , wedi , hardibacker . What ever fits the project budget . Redguard works well just have to watch how your roll application goes on .

    Attachments:
    1. image57

      image57.jpg

    #151977

    Why I use HYDROBAN. The thickness makes it less goof proof.
    To be sure you have the correct membrane thickness, use a V-notch 1/4 x 3/16 trowel to apply. You want to see those ridges. Let first coat dry and now with flat side of trowel, fill IN those low spots smoothly. There you have the recommended thickness of membrane.
    All this on clean clean smooth, taped/thinset seams (you left required gap? )
    All set.
    THAT is why I prefer HYDROBAN. If you do use. RedGard, first coat mix one part to three water and prime it all with that. The following straight coats triple on pan and seams, one coat. One. direction and next the other, etc.

    #181263

    One major difference if you do your research online is that Redgard is certified for use in steam rooms and as a vapor barrier whereas Hydro-ban is not. Both have the certification for pan liners and waterproofing, but Redgard outperforms Kerdi membrane (not Kerdi DS) in Perms of vapor penetration. I am choosing redgard for my steam shower since I am a homeowner and have time to wait for curing of the superior product. Evidence below.

    REDGARD CERT: http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/media/59911211/tb63_redgard_steam__shower.pdf
    hYDRO-BAN PAGE 2 UNDER LIMITATIONS: http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/media/59911211/tb63_redgard_steam__shower.pdf
    KERDI: http://www.schluter.com/media/Waterproofing-ENG.pdf?v=201409030600

    #181272
    Profile photo of Ryan
    RyanF
    Pro

    Hmmm…interesting first post.

    Redgard is a fine product. I’ve used it before. That said, your post is pretty misleading.

    Redgard’s performance is directly tied to the thickness of application. As your links indicate, Redgard achieves a vapor permeance rating of .36 @ 30 mil. Kerdi DS (same product, just thicker than regular Kerdi) achieves a vapor perm rating of .18 @ 20 mil. The lower the number, the better.

    So, the Kerdi fabric achieves better (lower) vapor permeance than Redgard, and does so at 1/3 less thickness. That doesn’t seem like a superior product to me.

    From an application standpoint, I personally hate the idea of having to apply liquids to a specific thickness to achieve a specific performance, so I’d much prefer the option that takes away that variable.

    #181278

    The two PDFs are from the Custom Co. I stand behind my previous preference for Hydroban. For several reasons. If price difference puts anyone off with Hydroban, consider the difference between flat to satin to semi-gloss to gloss paint. Gloss costs most, but the durability and amt. required more than offsets that. I am only comparing the LIQUID TOPICAL products here, not Kerdi Membrane. I use Kerdi band in addition to tape/thinset/silicone in corners and changes in plane. Theirs or Laticretes topical drains, and the membrane kits to seal shower heads, etc. I do work as if I were to live with it, whether on my rentals or my own home.

    #181282

    P.S. Applied with a primer coat of Hydroban painted and rolled, 3 parts water to one HB. Dried. Then troweled according to my previous suggestion, it is goof proof on thickness.

    #181286

    P.S. Applied with a primer coat of Hydroban painted and rolled, 3 parts water to one HB. Dried. Then troweled straight from the bucket consistency according to my previous suggestion, it is goof proof on thickness.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)

You must login or register for the Pro Forum to reply to this topic.

queries. 0.866 seconds